KC John

I have a bad pilot roller bearing in my motor and am getting a bad chatter when I take off from a stop. I knew I shouldn't have used that POS, but it was already in the crank when I swapped engines and it was fine for about 10 years.

I'm sure I damaged it installing the tranny. I think that is what causes most failures with these bearings. I'm going to go to NAPA and get another bronze bushing like I put in my other engine and never use these roller bearings again. This is the second time I got screwed using them. There is very little room for error, one tap with a 100 pound transmission distorts them and they eventually fail.

All that explanation for this question. I want to install a 5 speed if I have to pull that trans out again. The one that seems to be the best for me is this one, even though I am worried about it fitting in the tunnel.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CMG-TCET5009/

I like the way the RS from Keisler is shaped for a better fit, but it looks like it only comes with a 3.27 first gear and I would have to change my rear gears also.

I want a 2.80-2.90 first gear and a .65-.70 5th gear. I also want the shifter to be in the right spot and I don't want to put in new body bushings or alter my tunnel.

What fits the bill, any suggestions? I've read a lot of posts, but I'm getting confused on which ones have a waiting list and which places have bad service etc. I apologize for asking a question that has been asked so many times before, but I'm very confused as to what is the best thing to go with if I don't want to wait 6 months.

DucatiDon

What rear gears do you have?
I have 3:70 and the RS500 is perfect. A little extra low end grunt, and OD too.
Its a tight fit...I dont know how folks squeeze a TKO in there...

Godholio

Agreeing with this (though I have a 3.36).

Plasticman

Think Tremec (or maybe it was Keisler) requires the use of a roller bearing pilot with those trans. I don't like them either, but probably will void any warranty if not used.

And don't forget to figure in the new or shortened driveshaft and new clutch disc (26 spline) if purchasing just the trans from Summit or Jegs. Might need a new yoke as well.......can't remember.

I have a 3.09 1st, and love it with 3.70 effective rear gears (26" tires with 3.55 rear).

And from what I have seen, an RS shifts a whole lot better than a Tremec.

Plasticman

KC John

I have a 3.70 rear gear. I know from my Bel Air that a 3.27 first gear and a 3.70 rear is too low for me. I'd like to stay around 3.00 for first gear.

Plasticman, what trans do you have?

Keisler Automotive

Consider the SS700 for $3499 intro price. If you order by Friday, you get free shipping with our summer sale coming to a close.

The SS700, like the RS400/500/600, requires that you do one of the following because these transmissions are synchronized in reverse, making parking lot driving easier, and no gear grinding:
1. put car on 4ton jackstands, about 18inch up. using a engine lift, move the engine forward 2-3 inches. then install the trans and bell, clutch,etc. then bring the engine back into position, bolt it up.
- OR -
2. remove the hood, radiator, and engine/trans as a set. install the trans off line, then reinstall to car
- OR -
3. install a removable crossmember to make servicing the trans easy. we manufacture this as a kit for $350. this requires lifing the body 6 inches so you can remove the stock crossmember. not an easy job, but not as hard as you would think. use 6 bottle jacks and some wood blocks and it goes pretty well.

Our TKO PerfectFit kits don't require the above.

Always a pro and con for every option.

Plasticman

MY6 built for GM by New Process (Chrysler) for 1980-1986 economy vans and pickups. 4 speed with 4th being .73 OD. 1st is 3.09, 2nd is 1.68, 3rd 1:1. It is based on Chrysler's A-833, and is stout, but has wide gear spacing, so it needs a stronger engine with a wide torque band. I have a 355 CID with a relatively mild hyd. cam (.483 lift), dual AFBs, and headers. Bill (wmf62) also has same trans and runs it with 3.36 rear with stock dia. tires (engine is a ZZ4 with his special Rochester based electronic FI).

Same length and splines as a Muncie, so no driveshaft or clutch disc change, but still needs minor changes to make work (make a shifter mounting bracket, speedo gear ratio issue, rear mount slight hgt. difference, lengthen shifter rods as needed, etc.

Note that 2 different models were made, with the earlier version using the standard Chevy truck bell housing with the ~5" centering hole. But it required trans to bellousing studs to be used on the driver's side due to conflict with the shifter housing cover boss (a bolt head will not fit, but a nut on the stud works fine, just no way to torque it properly). The later version main case and bell housing was changed to fix that conflit, but requires a unique bell housing that better come with the transmission.

Plasticman

Keisler Automotive

Did you know that New Process Gear just recently closed its doors after 125 years of production? It was the oldest of the Big 3 manual transmission plants - GM Muncie 1919 (IN), Borg Warner 1926 (IN), New Process Gear 2012 (NY). Say Good bye to the last Mohican of the American OEM gear companies.

The 3.09 to 1.68 drop is what hurts these overdrive 4speeds; the big 1-2 drop.

Plasticman

No, did not know that it had closed. Sorry to hear that.

When I had the Muncie in the 62, I found myself constantly upshifting from 1st to 3rd. And the MY6 has extremely similar gearing to a 700R4 automatic (same as in my 87 Vette), which is what convinced me that the MY6 gearing would be just fine. But I don't recommend it for anyone trying to speed shift it like a good Muncie, and downshifting to 1st best be done below 10mph, or be real good at double clutching.

Both Bill (wmf62) and I have been using the MY6 since 2005, and with torquey 350 engines, it is a great cruising combination. Even with Bill's previous 70's era LT1 (including solid lifter cam), 3.36 rear gears, and stock hgt. tires, he did not have an issue with the 1st-2nd gear differential.

Thanks,
Plasticman

remotecontroller

Kiesler would have to chime in, but I thought with at least the RS400 a roller pilot bearing was not required. RS600 requires roller pilot bearing, but has a better 1st gear which is why I got it for my C1.

1snake

Why go through Summit? Go directly to Hurst Driveline Conversions. I've installed 2 of their Tremec kits (not in a Corvette though) and they are the best in the business. The kit is complete, there are NO back orders or waiting and if they say you will have your parts tomorrow, that's when you get them. No BS excuses.

Jim

Keisler Automotive

Probably because he wants the best QUALITY kit from the originator, not an inferior competitor rip off of a Keisler kit.

Keisler Automotive

For all late model transmissions that use a taper roller bearing, a pilot bearing should be used. This is because as the bronze pilot bushing wears away, it lets the input shaft side load and the taper roller bearings are then degraded, and can eventually fail.

Even still, a pilot bushing is OK as long as it is well lube'd and inspected periodically (1x per 2 or 3 years) ... AND ... the bellhousing runout inspection is performed and corrections made to get the runout in spec.

69ttop502

I agree with Jim here. Do a search and see how these companies compare in customer service. No comparison. You certainly won't see Hurst ripping into their competition like some do. Some companies will never learn. All BS aside. I would definitely do your homework before I sent anyone any money. There are tons of posts in the archives here. You will certainly be enlightened on who does things the right way and who doesn't.

Bill

KC John

I'm in a project now that is mushrooming out of control. I started putting a centrifugal blower on my '55 BA and it was a completely finished car. Now I have an A/C unit to install, a steering column, another engine and I'm smoothing the firewall.

I was 4 hours or so away from driving this car and I had a change of heart and decided to fix a few things while I was at it. Big mistake.

I really don't want to touch anything on my '63 but the drivetrain from the back of the engine to the rear end. No body mount bushings, no crossmember alterations, no tunnel mods or anything else just to fix my pilot bushing. If I can't be sure all I'll have to do is install a transmission and it's parts, I'll just keep my 4 speed and fix the pilot.

wmf62

2 alternative then, the MY6 and an OD Muncie.
Bill

Crunch527

Couple things from a guy who has done two TKO-600 5-speed swaps, one using Kiesler and one using American Power Train.

#1 issue is the shifter...its what you will interact with as the operator on a daily basis and if it isnt positive you will hate the transmission. The Kiesler TKO600 I had back in 2006, had a lousy shifter...without fail I would hit the shift gate between 1st and third, as I was shifting to 3rd...would miss 3rd gear and rev the engine...even after using the trans for a cople of years and 10Kmiles I still had the problem. Fast forward to today...I have an American Powertrain TKO600 and the shifter is shorter and positive...I dont miss gears, ever. Not a slam just the truth. In Kiesler's defense, they claim the new RSS series has a better shifter. Also, in general the TKO has a rep for "notchy" shfter feel...no doubt that is true, but my current TKO shifts fiine and I dont notice the notchyness.

#2 removable crossmember: regardless of what you decide, I just force-fed a TKO600 into my 67 vette...sucked...I can do it, yes, but I have to move the motor forward...huge pain in the ***. There are other ways to solve the removable cross member problem and you dont have to lift the body 6 inches...hell by then you can take the body totally off the frame. Search "removable cross-member" and you will find a post that has four different methods with pics. One method requires removing the body completely...the other three do not and can be done by a fab shop if needed for close to the cost of buying a removable cross-member kit and then installing.

#3 Timeline: American Power Train had me a trans in a week. You need to ask the question with whoever you go with...the sales guys arent always lock-step with the guys buidling the units and therefore, you could place an order and be months in waiting...again, read the forum posts.

#4 Overall: a 5-speed is best upgrade you can do to one of these old cars short of going with a modern chassis with C6 suspension and LS motor

Cheers,

Frank

I am not trying to sell anything for American Power Train, but I had read all the posts on this forum and do have first hand experience

6T7L71CPE

As far as I can tell that Summit trans is an unmodified Tremec and the shifter will be anywhere BUT in the right location.

INMYBLOOD

Good advice. Crunch can I come hunting????

Keisler Automotive

Frank,

This problem is not our shifter mechanism. This problem of missing the 2-3 shift and being blocked out in 3rd, or any other gear, is the inherent design limitations of the truck derived TKO. The TKO's lineage goes back to the T-150 ford truck transmission of the 1960s. And what I mean by lineage I mean the multirail architecture, single cone brass blocker ring, and other truck/van design components.

Look at the TKO case and you will see a shifter mounting for a 7inch shifter position. This is for Vans and some trucks. The next shifter position is 12inch, and is for many trucks. This position had become the industry standard shift position in America going back to pre-1950 days.

The TKO multirail system has no guide to prevent you from going into 5th gear just as easily you can go into 3rd gear. The motion of your hand is just a rotation of approx 10degrees. Compare that to the single rail architecture of the Borg Warner T5, T56, T45, and our derivative RS, which has a Guide Plate where the single shift rail runs in a track, preventing you from making an incorrect shift.

We found back around 2000-2001 the only way to 2-3 speed shift a TKO is to open palm shift the handle forward. Once you learn this technique, you will improve your skill at shifting the TKO. It is no guarantee of not missing a shift. That is why when guys go to the track and are pumped up they tend to push the handle more to the right and miss the shift.

We've sold more than 13,000 of the TKO transmissions. These shift problems are worse with some than others. There has been no marked improvement of this problem by Tremec since the release of the transmission in 1998. You can remove the shift finger on the shift rail and polish it, chamfer it, REM finish it, or do whatever you want, and call it what you want. But the end result is still the same - the problems are inherent to the design architecture of the transmission. KE didn't fix it, no one fixed it. And unless someone wants to spend several hundred thousand dollars to retool the shift system it will never be resolved.

And I haven't covered anything about the blockout problem with the synchro system. A discussion for another day....