I purchased lifters to replace some broken ones in my 61 (the car has a 350 block from about 1975). They look very similar to the ones that were in place (same size, shape).

However, the new lifters have a spring action.. and the old ones (every single one) do not. I need a lesson in lifters..

Did springs get added to lifters at some point?
Are there "with" and "without" springs in lifters?

Thanks much,
Fred

 

That's because they're empty--There's no oil in them. Soak them in motor oil for a few days and try again--they'll be much harder to collapse---if they collapse at all.

 

Thanks Ron, (BTW: DE WD6FHS!)

The "new" lifters also have a retaining clip to prevent the push rod cup from coming out of the lifter. The old ones do not.. and no spring inside.. so they won't "pump up" until filled with oil..

Maybe just a subtle difference in mfg?

Seems like it will be easier to adjust the lash with the spring there.

 

There have been two companies that made the lifters if I recall. Johnson and Stanodine. {I think that's spelled correctly}, repackaged by everybody'....the hydraulics I have seen has a lifter button held in by a wire clip {spring?} without which the lifter would come apart and those without are the solid lifter style.....could it be your cam is a solid and not a hydraulic?

 

It's a fair question.. I had just assumed they were hydraulic.. They have a 2 small holes for oil in the sides.. but there is no spring to them at all.

 

After some internet learning, it appears that there are
solid lifters in my motor. It also appears that a couple of the rocker studs have been pushed out of place, as they are sitting noticably higher than the rest, and i cannot adjust them down far enough.

 

If your lifters don't have a clip to retain the pushrod seat, they are the so-called "edge orifice" lifters. Those send oil to the rocker arms by metering oil through the clearance between the lifter body and the lifter bore in the block. They reduce oil volume to the rocker arms by 10 to 30 percent from the "other" type of lifter, which has a separate pushrod seat with a retainer clip. These have a disk valve below the pushrod seat to limit oil movement to the rocker arms, but they flow considerably more than edge orifice lifters.

 

You need to be certain regarding the type of lifter you have/need. It appears that you have solid lifters, so you need to replace with the same.

The heads probably have the press-in studs, which can/will pull out with time on some cars. Spring pressures higher than stock will aggrevate this. Oversize press-in studs are available. Many have used these with success. The other alternative is to go with screw in studs.

They make a couple of different kinds of screw in studs for your motor, and each requires a slightly different method to install. Some folks have replaced one or two studs with the heads still on, but it may be best to pull the heads and have a machine shop do this work.

Larry

 

There is a third option for securing the rocker stud. For two or three dollars a stud, your machine shop can pin them. A small hole is drilled in the boss and into the stud and a drift pin is press fit into both. It is an old hot rod trick. It will prevent the stud from walking out. I had this done on both of my small blocks while the heads were being refurbished. Jerry

 

Yep. I would just knock the two studs back down to the right height. Drill the boss/stud with a 5/32" drill and the drive a 5/32" roll pin in place. Leave some sticking out so they can be removed later if necessary. With stock springs, you could forget about them.

You can also do it with the heads on the engine if you take care to trap the drill shavings.

 

Thank you for that nugget Avispa.. Yes, they are indeed "Edge Orifice" solid lifters. Seems like these were used in racing applications to limit the amount of oil sent to the top end to avoid sucking air in the crankcase under high-G conditions. Pretty cool!

Regarding my loose rocker studs.. I was able to hammer them back into place, but doing so boogered the threads.. it took quite a bit of force. So it looks like the heads are coming off after all.

I've read some horror stories about trying to tap the stud hole with the head still on the motor. I think I'll avoid that route.

 

Be sure to replace the cam if you replace the lifters .

Bill

 

Not trying to argue, but I have replaced the lifters on more than a few engines without changing the cam. Just coat the bottom of the lifters with assembly lube.

Of course, if the cam has worn lobes or the lifters show issues, then a complete change is in order.

Larry

 

That is correct.....for a while there was some China garbage floating around as one of these companies had a strike or something....this was in the mid 2000's

Jebby

 

see post # 10 from mikem
you can do this on the car, remove the buggered threaded studs and install new ones with a hammer and be sure to screw some sacrificial nuts on them first this time.....

 

The edge orfice solids were OEM in all the solid lifter SBC engines. The piddle valve solid lifters were used in the BB's. The service replacement became the piddle valve lifter.

If you find the pushrod seat that came out of the lifter, you can stick it back in the lifter and button the engine back up.

Next time you hammer of a threaded appliance, run a nut down flush with the end of the threads. Why not run a thread chaser over the stud and keep what you have?

 

Thank you Mike, and everyone for your input. Yep, I felt like putting on the DUNCE CAP after that move!! Well, I guess if you're not wearing the Dunce Cap every now and then, you're not learning, right?

And yes, I now realize that the lifter was not actually broke at all.. It had just separated from running with the broken push rod. If I could have picked it up without dropping it in the motor, I would be cruising around in it by now!!

I was planning to try a die to see if the threads can be de-buggered.. But I now see what I really need is a "split die", or "repair die". Does anyone happen to know the tread size of the rocker studs?? (I am at work and can't measure now - would like to pickup a split die on the way home)

EDIT: Looks like the threads are 3/8-24 on the studs.

Here is what I need:

 

You don't want a "die" - they cut metal. What you want is a "thread-chaser" die, which will clean and straighten threads.

 

I've never checked but I believe 3/8" X 24 is correct on the threads.

You MIGHT have to lightly dress down the end of the stud if you mushroomed it with the hammer in order to get a thread chaser started.

When you use a thread chaser, just make sure when the tool bites and starts cutting, that it is cutting in the same thread groove as the stud already has on it. You don't want two sets of threads.

I witheld comment on trying to find the pushrod seat but I think it'd be worth looking for as you can just put it back in the lifter and not worry about a new lifter mating in with the old camshaft.

Years ago, I had exactly the same thing happen to me. I didn't look for the the pushrod seat that had jumped out, just paid about $.80 for a new solid lifter and put it in the engine. The cam in the engine had 5-10K miles on it. It took about two minutes of running to knock the lobe off the cam and I had to start over.

 

Yep, you guys have convinced me! I already ordered a new pan gasket.. Gonna try to find that seat!!!

I actually didn't screw up the stud very much at all.. It looks normal, but I can't start the nut on it. Hopefully just deflected a thread. Need to get a bright light and a magnifier and take a closer look, but I'm hopeful it can be fixed.

2 steps forward, 1 step back!

EDIT: My mom just located the receipt of the block from 1972 (my dad was super-**** about this stuff!). The P/N is 3966921.. It's an LT1 block! Purchased for the whopping cost of $399!

That explains the solid lifters, high CR, and it also has a hot cam.