C2 Alignment Settings
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,772
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From: Asheville NC
C2 Alignment Settings
Can anyone comment on the handling changes I would notice by changing the Front/Rear Toe in settings to 1/32 (from zero)/1/8 total (from 1/16).
I have used the generous information from this forum to straighten out my 65 convertible so it goes around a corner without scaring the crap out of me, and I would know how to make the handling less neutral and more responsive.
Its a completely stock, touring radial, frame off restored convertible.
Thank you
I have used the generous information from this forum to straighten out my 65 convertible so it goes around a corner without scaring the crap out of me, and I would know how to make the handling less neutral and more responsive.
Its a completely stock, touring radial, frame off restored convertible.
Thank you
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 195
From: Maryland
Got this archive from the NCRS TDB by JohnZ. This for radial tires.
Front camber = 0*
Front caster = 1.5* to 2.5* positive
Front toe-in = zero to 1/16" TOTAL toe-in
Rear camber = 0* to -1/2*
Rear toe-in = 1/16" TOTAL toe-in, split evenly across the thrust centerline (1/32" per side)
Front camber = 0*
Front caster = 1.5* to 2.5* positive
Front toe-in = zero to 1/16" TOTAL toe-in
Rear camber = 0* to -1/2*
Rear toe-in = 1/16" TOTAL toe-in, split evenly across the thrust centerline (1/32" per side)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Maryland
St. Jude Donor '05, '09, '15
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Hi,
I my experience, in using radial tires, alignment settings usually do not affect handling as much as tire pressures. Since radial tires, by design, have much greater slip angles than bias-ply tires of the same sizes, they tend to be more forgiving of some mis-alignment. I imagine that you had a decidedly quesy feeling the first time you drove your car into a corner on radials. They are, because of the slip angle, much less predictable.
All that having been said, don't let anyone tell you that 0* degree camber, front or rear is a good idea. Not a good idea for the same reason: rubber bushings. Same for toe-in. I use 1/8" total, front and rear and have used as much as 3/16" rear. What you are trying to avoid is toe-out under braking and under power in the rear.
You did not say anything about anti-roll bars or wheel widths but if you are in pursuit of more predictable handling you are going to have to consider these things.
Regards
I my experience, in using radial tires, alignment settings usually do not affect handling as much as tire pressures. Since radial tires, by design, have much greater slip angles than bias-ply tires of the same sizes, they tend to be more forgiving of some mis-alignment. I imagine that you had a decidedly quesy feeling the first time you drove your car into a corner on radials. They are, because of the slip angle, much less predictable.
All that having been said, don't let anyone tell you that 0* degree camber, front or rear is a good idea. Not a good idea for the same reason: rubber bushings. Same for toe-in. I use 1/8" total, front and rear and have used as much as 3/16" rear. What you are trying to avoid is toe-out under braking and under power in the rear.
You did not say anything about anti-roll bars or wheel widths but if you are in pursuit of more predictable handling you are going to have to consider these things.
Regards
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,772
Likes: 196
From: Asheville NC
Here are my modified Settings
Thank you all for replying to my post
I have a restored 1965 327/350 Convert w/no power steering/brakes
Here are the settings when I purchased the car (the rear end felt like it was coming loose around corners on the highway).
Front was pretty close: 1/32 toe in and -.25 degree camber/side (did not check caster)
Rear was the problem: Left rear: toe in 3/16 inch and Camber -.25, Right rear:toe in 1/16 inch, Camber -1.0 degree --- on touring 205/75 radials at 35 psi cold.
I worked on the rear toe and camber getting it to 1/32 toe in per side and -.25 camber per side then drove it. It was much predictable and planted in corners or on curves.
After reading the reply's I increased the rear toe in to 1/16 per side and the handling is even better. I want drive and evaluate the handling further before changing any of the front settings.
Thank you for the support
Phil
I have a restored 1965 327/350 Convert w/no power steering/brakes
Here are the settings when I purchased the car (the rear end felt like it was coming loose around corners on the highway).
Front was pretty close: 1/32 toe in and -.25 degree camber/side (did not check caster)
Rear was the problem: Left rear: toe in 3/16 inch and Camber -.25, Right rear:toe in 1/16 inch, Camber -1.0 degree --- on touring 205/75 radials at 35 psi cold.
I worked on the rear toe and camber getting it to 1/32 toe in per side and -.25 camber per side then drove it. It was much predictable and planted in corners or on curves.
After reading the reply's I increased the rear toe in to 1/16 per side and the handling is even better. I want drive and evaluate the handling further before changing any of the front settings.
Thank you for the support
Phil
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 51
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Phil,
One thing I might have mentioned in my post yesterday is the strut rod bracket. Changing to the second design bracket will have a dramatic effect on rear suspension performance. The roll center is lowered to just above the ground, according to Chevrolet. I have installed five or six of these over the years and it helped every time. Beyond that I always suggest wider wheels. This is only practical, I suppose, if you are using steel wheels with covers. Knock-offs, not so much. The aim is to limit a radial tire's tendency to allow lateral weight transfer when entering a corner (that is the squishy feeling that you must have noticed the first time you drove the car on radials).
Corvette suspension design, front and rear, contains a number of comprimises. They primary way we tried to deal with these comprises in race preparation was with stiff springs. This is not practical in street-driven cars. Shock absorber selection will help, but only so much. Anti-roll bar addition/changes same thing. Additional rebound stiffness will help, you can't use too much without beginning to unload the inside tire in corners.
Simpliest and cheapest way to proceed (assuming bracket change) is to try to negate the effect of camber change and toe change during cornering. These cars like lots of negative camber and lots of toe-in. I also try to get as much caster as positive. Lots of caster is not a cure-all by itself. Tire wear may not be ideal with ideal settings, but you get to decide what is most important.
Hope this helps
One thing I might have mentioned in my post yesterday is the strut rod bracket. Changing to the second design bracket will have a dramatic effect on rear suspension performance. The roll center is lowered to just above the ground, according to Chevrolet. I have installed five or six of these over the years and it helped every time. Beyond that I always suggest wider wheels. This is only practical, I suppose, if you are using steel wheels with covers. Knock-offs, not so much. The aim is to limit a radial tire's tendency to allow lateral weight transfer when entering a corner (that is the squishy feeling that you must have noticed the first time you drove the car on radials).
Corvette suspension design, front and rear, contains a number of comprimises. They primary way we tried to deal with these comprises in race preparation was with stiff springs. This is not practical in street-driven cars. Shock absorber selection will help, but only so much. Anti-roll bar addition/changes same thing. Additional rebound stiffness will help, you can't use too much without beginning to unload the inside tire in corners.
Simpliest and cheapest way to proceed (assuming bracket change) is to try to negate the effect of camber change and toe change during cornering. These cars like lots of negative camber and lots of toe-in. I also try to get as much caster as positive. Lots of caster is not a cure-all by itself. Tire wear may not be ideal with ideal settings, but you get to decide what is most important.
Hope this helps
