Rust problems with powder coated frame
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 149
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From: Des Moines IOWA
Rust problems with powder coated frame
I a 65 frame that I had blasted then powder coated. It has never been outside. I sat the body on the frame to do some measurements and noticed the frame had rust coming out every hole. Powder coater said bring it back but it is a complete rolling chassis and I will have to strip it down. Not sure if I should take it back to him or go some other route. Any ideas would be great. I saw this and took a two year break from my project but I need to get back on track. Thanks
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 149
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From: Des Moines IOWA
That stuff looks pretty good. Do you think I should get the frame re powder coated then do this treatment to the inside. Should the powder coater did some kind of corrosion treatment before powder coating. I spent around two grand getting the powder coating done. This did include all the suspension parts though. It really looked nice when done.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
Likes: 7,146
Army
I really don't know that much about powder coating maybe others here or your powder coating 'guy' can provide the advice. I treated my frame completely with Ospho rust convertor, treated the internal frame passages as per the video posted above and followed up with the original, factory asphalt paint. A messy, dirty job but its all done now..
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: Des Moines IOWA
I just got the body off and the rust is worse than I thought. Its coming from areas that where brand new steel. I liked the look of the powder coating but I thought they treated the frame with something to prevent it from rusting. Do you you guys think I could get it coated again then do some work to the inside of the frame?
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 1,293
From: minneola fl
It sounds like the rust is on the inside of the frame rails. That doesn't have anything to do with the sandblasting, prep, or powder coating, which were all done on the outside. The only way to clean the inside of the frame is to either have it dipped, or do something like Frank did. Keep in mind that you want to "convert" the rust, and not cover it up with some of the POR junk. You have to get it ALL. A powder coater, or sandblaster, will NOT get inside the frame. It will also NOT get between plate welded steel, like where brackets, etc., overlap each other. Ospho is a good product to get into tight places. It is a converter, not a cover up. Rust is converted from iron oxide to iron phosphate. I made up a spray bottle with a piece of hose, and a brass fitting on the end of the hose that sprays a a circular pattern (six small holes). When you pump the sprayer, it coats the entire inside of the rails. Just push it in a hole, and start spraying while you pull back. I usually do this during frame restoration, so that I can flip the frame, and put it on different angles to allow the material to go into all of the crevices.
You probably also have some "rust scale" that has broken loose. The best thing to do in your situation, is to try and blow as much of it out as you can. Good luck.
Mike Coletta
You probably also have some "rust scale" that has broken loose. The best thing to do in your situation, is to try and blow as much of it out as you can. Good luck.
Mike Coletta
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
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Army
Try the Eastwood stuff - it converts and encapsulates and is on sale for like $13 a can with a sprayer. Get 4 cans minimum. I used that on the '63 but I SOAKED the inside of the frame. I have 6 more cans coming to do the '61.
I'm betting there is a ton of folks running around pounding their chests about their body off/frame off restorations with powder coated frames that have rust (it never sleeps) creeping along the inside of their frames.
I'm betting there is a ton of folks running around pounding their chests about their body off/frame off restorations with powder coated frames that have rust (it never sleeps) creeping along the inside of their frames.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,039
Likes: 2,592
From: Del Boca Vista FL
When I did the work on my 63 frame I sandblasted it, made the section repairs and then took it to Carolina Chem Strip. They electro chemically strip the frame, then they submerge it in an OSPHO type solution. It weeped that solution for three weeks prior to painting with Variprime followed by PPG topcoat.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 645
Likes: 8
DONT do this!:
In 1985 while in college, I bought a 1965 Buick GS convert. Very nice car, but it was rusting pretty bad on the body mounts, and inside the frame sections, and rear quarters. It was an Ohio "rust-belt" car.
I put my bubba hat on and cut the body mount rot away and then riveted some metal in its place and painted.
I had a big old compressed-air fire extinguisher laying around.
I filled it with used oil and thinned it down with diesel fuel.
I spayed it under the car and inside the frame holes.
I then had the car painted for $350.
I repeated the spray process one more time about a year later.
When I sold the car 12 years later there was no hint of rust.
It was my only car, and I always parked it outside for all those years. I put over 100k miles on it rain/shine/snow.
PS: I sold it for more than I had in it! Those were the days!
In 1985 while in college, I bought a 1965 Buick GS convert. Very nice car, but it was rusting pretty bad on the body mounts, and inside the frame sections, and rear quarters. It was an Ohio "rust-belt" car.
I put my bubba hat on and cut the body mount rot away and then riveted some metal in its place and painted.
I had a big old compressed-air fire extinguisher laying around.
I filled it with used oil and thinned it down with diesel fuel.
I spayed it under the car and inside the frame holes.
I then had the car painted for $350.
I repeated the spray process one more time about a year later.
When I sold the car 12 years later there was no hint of rust.
It was my only car, and I always parked it outside for all those years. I put over 100k miles on it rain/shine/snow.
PS: I sold it for more than I had in it! Those were the days!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,937
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From: OP Kansas
C2 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Powdercoat is a plastic coating and if the surface is not prepared perfectly, the coating only makes a skin over the metal and doesn't stick to it. If this happens you can see how rust can form under the coating. I found this out by tightening a bolt with a washer under it on something that was powdercoated. When I removed the nut and washer, I was able to lift the powdercoating off in that area like a decal. It had looked perfect, but was not adhered to the metal in that area.
Powdercoaters will also use paint to touch up areas that don't come out right. I found this out once when I had a bird cage done. It was done with white and for some reason I used mineral spirits to wipe off an area and it took off the white in a couple of spots. I called them and they told me that some spots are just too difficult to get and they hit those spots with paint feeling that they are small and shouldn't be noticed.
Powdercoaters will also use paint to touch up areas that don't come out right. I found this out once when I had a bird cage done. It was done with white and for some reason I used mineral spirits to wipe off an area and it took off the white in a couple of spots. I called them and they told me that some spots are just too difficult to get and they hit those spots with paint feeling that they are small and shouldn't be noticed.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 149
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From: Des Moines IOWA
I have been driving and calling all around all morning trying to find ospho but no luck. I will have to order it. I was hoping to coat the inside of the frame with it before it goes to the powder coater. Then maybe the eastwood stuff when it comes back from powder coating. I would love to just get it dipped and coated that way if anyone knows a place close to Des Moines Iowa. I am willing to try anything. I have been sad tearing this thing apart and finding rust coming out of every where. Even the crossmember that holds the rear end is rusty. It has all new bushings pressed in and probably will be junk when removed. Another 100 down the toilet. Thanks a ton guys.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,554
Likes: 168
From: Wi
I have been driving and calling all around all morning trying to find ospho but no luck. I will have to order it. I was hoping to coat the inside of the frame with it before it goes to the powder coater. Then maybe the eastwood stuff when it comes back from powder coating. I would love to just get it dipped and coated that way if anyone knows a place close to Des Moines Iowa. I am willing to try anything. I have been sad tearing this thing apart and finding rust coming out of every where. Even the crossmember that holds the rear end is rusty. It has all new bushings pressed in and probably will be junk when removed. Another 100 down the toilet. Thanks a ton guys.
http://midwestrod.com/services.asp
or here
http://www.motormagic.info/karl.htm
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 149
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From: Des Moines IOWA
I found a guy to clean and acid dip the frame about 2.5 hours away. He is is going to meet me at his shop tomorrow morning. This way I can start with a completely clean frame. I am going to still make the powder coater re do it when I get it back but what would be the best thing to do with the inside of the frame before and after powder coating? Any kind of chemical to coat it that wont just burn off. I would like to paint inside after powder coating.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,984
Likes: 185
From: CT
I found a guy to clean and acid dip the frame about 2.5 hours away. He is is going to meet me at his shop tomorrow morning. This way I can start with a completely clean frame. I am going to still make the powder coater re do it when I get it back but what would be the best thing to do with the inside of the frame before and after powder coating? Any kind of chemical to coat it that wont just burn off. I would like to paint inside after powder coating.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,479
Likes: 92
From: Between Tally and Gatorville ,Florida
It sounds like the rust is on the inside of the frame rails. That doesn't have anything to do with the sandblasting, prep, or powder coating, which were all done on the outside. The only way to clean the inside of the frame is to either have it dipped, or do something like Frank did. Keep in mind that you want to "convert" the rust, and not cover it up with some of the POR junk. You have to get it ALL. A powder coater, or sandblaster, will NOT get inside the frame. It will also NOT get between plate welded steel, like where brackets, etc., overlap each other. Ospho is a good product to get into tight places. It is a converter, not a cover up. Rust is converted from iron oxide to iron phosphate. I made up a spray bottle with a piece of hose, and a brass fitting on the end of the hose that sprays a a circular pattern (six small holes). When you pump the sprayer, it coats the entire inside of the rails. Just push it in a hole, and start spraying while you pull back. I usually do this during frame restoration, so that I can flip the frame, and put it on different angles to allow the material to go into all of the crevices.
You probably also have some "rust scale" that has broken loose. The best thing to do in your situation, is to try and blow as much of it out as you can. Good luck.
Mike Coletta
You probably also have some "rust scale" that has broken loose. The best thing to do in your situation, is to try and blow as much of it out as you can. Good luck.
Mike Coletta
Last edited by Dale002; Nov 2, 2013 at 11:00 PM.
