Power steering pump problem
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
Power steering pump problem
Well it's not the pump, it is in the mounting to the engine.No matter how many times I try to line up the pump it always ***** to one side when I tighten it down running the belt at an angle.I have studied the parts diagrams at length and I have everything a 66 BB is supposed to have and the brackets are in the right locations. I did have to buy the bottom bracket, imported I am sure, because the original had been welded in three places. Also the upper bracket with the pump adjustment slot and alternator adjustment slot has had what looks to be a good repair. Anyone ever run into this?.
Last edited by bonehead2; Nov 16, 2013 at 07:09 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,738
Likes: 217
From: Arizona AZ
I had a deal of a time getting my bracket on my 64 to attach to the motor mount. I bought my bracket from a Corvette Vendor and I used a pry bar to try to get the pulley on the power steering pump to align to the power steering pulley on the crankshaft. So far I have NOT been able to tweak the bracket enough to align to my satisfaction and I sure hate to have to take the bracket back off from the motor mount.............Lord have mercy don't make me go there again......
So you're not alone............for now, I put myself in a time out for all the bad words I was saying in the garage.............I'm not sure how long I will be in time out..............
So you're not alone............for now, I put myself in a time out for all the bad words I was saying in the garage.............I'm not sure how long I will be in time out..............
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,490
Likes: 808
From: East Central Florida
I too had alignment issues with the lower PS bracket on a 427 BB. It was a repro bracket. Not sure if you have the same setup, but I think it's similar. If not it may give you some ideas.
My problem, and may also be yours, was that the rear slot in the bracket for the pump housing lower rear mount stud, by design, allows the pump housing to shift as it's being tightened.
When you mount the rear nut, tighten it up very much. This will help keep the pulleys aligned later when you tighten the front bolts.
Another help will be to thread a very short bolt to the front of the pump to act as a lever point when tightening the belt. This also helps keep alignment by forcing the assembly downward against that slot. You can see it in the 2nd picture. I use a long bar and pry against that and the pump housing shaft snout(not reservoir) to tension the belt.
It's trial and error.
Rich
1st pic from Zip website showing the '65-74 BB PS bracket.
My problem, and may also be yours, was that the rear slot in the bracket for the pump housing lower rear mount stud, by design, allows the pump housing to shift as it's being tightened.
When you mount the rear nut, tighten it up very much. This will help keep the pulleys aligned later when you tighten the front bolts.
Another help will be to thread a very short bolt to the front of the pump to act as a lever point when tightening the belt. This also helps keep alignment by forcing the assembly downward against that slot. You can see it in the 2nd picture. I use a long bar and pry against that and the pump housing shaft snout(not reservoir) to tension the belt.
It's trial and error.
Rich
1st pic from Zip website showing the '65-74 BB PS bracket.
Last edited by rich5962; Nov 17, 2013 at 05:26 AM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
That is exactly what I have. I bought the new bottom bracket as well. I will attempt to post a pic of my pump alignment. I had to put shims between the pump body and the lower adjuster bracket with the slot to even get close. Your pump looks round compared to mine. Any pics of an original 66 427 p/s pump?.
Last edited by bonehead2; Nov 18, 2013 at 05:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,490
Likes: 808
From: East Central Florida
The pump in my pictures is a correct(rebuilt) PS pump for a '63 -'74.
The picture you linked doesn't look like the same pump, it looks like a later pump('75+). You're picture is very small, hard to see, but it's the wrong pump.
EDIT.....I resized your pic, lost resolution but no squinting now....Below at end.
This is the correct pump.....
Is your water pump pulley 2 or 3 grooves? Does it have A/C or A.I.R.(K19 smog equip)?
Email me a picture(via the PM/Email) system here on CF with better resolution and I'll post it here.
If the WP pulley is 2 grooves, the rear belt should be between the WP and crankshaft Damper. This has no adjustment and is a direct fit. The WP pulley(or Damper pulley) must be removed to install it. The forward WP groove/belt drives the PS pump at the rear groove, and the PS pump front groove drives the alternator. That's the arrangement on a '67 and I believe the same for a '66 BB. Pic below, but it's a L71 so the alternator attach brackets are different on yours.
If WP pulley is 3 grooves, The middle WP pulley drives the rear PS pump pulley groove. I think this is what's in your picture.
Regardless, you need to get the correct pump as I think that's your alignment issue.
Rich
The picture you linked doesn't look like the same pump, it looks like a later pump('75+). You're picture is very small, hard to see, but it's the wrong pump.
EDIT.....I resized your pic, lost resolution but no squinting now....Below at end.This is the correct pump.....
Is your water pump pulley 2 or 3 grooves? Does it have A/C or A.I.R.(K19 smog equip)?
Email me a picture(via the PM/Email) system here on CF with better resolution and I'll post it here.
If the WP pulley is 2 grooves, the rear belt should be between the WP and crankshaft Damper. This has no adjustment and is a direct fit. The WP pulley(or Damper pulley) must be removed to install it. The forward WP groove/belt drives the PS pump at the rear groove, and the PS pump front groove drives the alternator. That's the arrangement on a '67 and I believe the same for a '66 BB. Pic below, but it's a L71 so the alternator attach brackets are different on yours.
If WP pulley is 3 grooves, The middle WP pulley drives the rear PS pump pulley groove. I think this is what's in your picture.
Regardless, you need to get the correct pump as I think that's your alignment issue.
Rich
Last edited by rich5962; Nov 19, 2013 at 05:16 AM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
Thanks Rich. Car has air conditioning.The pumps themselves are the same?,mounting bolts etc? and the reservoirs are different or so I was told. I bought this pump from a very reputable vendor for a 66 B/B car with A/C.This is the 2nd pump in a year,the pulley keyway hogged out and the pulley came off in the driveway(lucky) on the first one.I suspect from running at such a severe angle? I have no idea what the original pump looked like other than your pictures.Do you think changing to a pump like the one in your picture will help?.I also had to make a 3/4 spacer for the adjustment hole on the alternator to get it lined up. That spacer was not there from the factory at least not in any diagrams I have found but I had to put one there to make the alt pulley line up. Using shims and spacers the alignment is much better now but that is not the correct way to achieve it.I don't like the way it is .
Maybe if I get a correct reservoir
http://www.chicagocorvette.net/image.../B/6/B6661.jpg
Maybe if I get a correct reservoir
http://www.chicagocorvette.net/image.../B/6/B6661.jpg
Last edited by bonehead2; Nov 19, 2013 at 11:23 AM.
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Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: East Central Florida
You're probably right, the pump housings may be the same "look", but I'm not sure about the mount bolt/stud positions. Maybe someone in the C3 forum can comment, as they used the one I pictured up to '74, then the type you show for '75 up. The reservoirs are obviously different. I don't think changing the reservoir will fix your problem as the mounts don't touch it.
You have A/C and the 3 groove WP pulley. Looks like your routing is correct. (see AIM pics below) If you have the correct bracket for the PS pump, then the only difference you have is the pump housing. I have neither type pump here so I cannot compare.
You need a special alternator pulley for a PS equipped engine. Do you have that?
This one for BB without PS & A/C....
Zip M-2447
This one for BB with PS with A/C.....Note the extra width.
Zip M-2694
Here are a few pages from my '67 AIM which may help. Same for '66 AFAIK. I've never done a 427 A/C w/PS car so I don't know what else I can come up with.
Rich
You have A/C and the 3 groove WP pulley. Looks like your routing is correct. (see AIM pics below) If you have the correct bracket for the PS pump, then the only difference you have is the pump housing. I have neither type pump here so I cannot compare.
You need a special alternator pulley for a PS equipped engine. Do you have that?
This one for BB without PS & A/C....
Zip M-2447
This one for BB with PS with A/C.....Note the extra width.
Zip M-2694
Here are a few pages from my '67 AIM which may help. Same for '66 AFAIK. I've never done a 427 A/C w/PS car so I don't know what else I can come up with.
Rich
Last edited by rich5962; Nov 19, 2013 at 12:00 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
Thanks Rich. You have convinced me to try to find a correct pump for this vehicle. Parts place says the pumps are interchangeable but there must be a boss on the old style or something different, bolt pattern through the brackets is the same. When I took this car apart a few years ago I noticed both p/s brackets were welded up a few times.I replaced the lower mounting bracket at that time. With BB,A/C and P/S, I am not looking forward to doing this for a 3rd time. Thanks for all your help with this sir. I will check the alternator pulley but it looks to be correct, the#s match on the alt as well as everything else on the car EXCEPT the p/s pump.Someone changed parts around years ago before I bought it.Back in the 70's 80's they didn't think to keep the original parts I suppose.
Your car is really nice!.
Your car is really nice!.
Last edited by bonehead2; Nov 19, 2013 at 12:59 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,937
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From: OP Kansas
C2 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
I wonder if the brackets were welded up because they had to be altered to get it to all line up. The last guy might have just made the mods rather than try and find the real problem.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
That could be but it looked like breaks in the metal that were welded up.I did see somewhere online that in 1968 a re designed bracket kit came out for the big blocks because of breakage.That's the first I have heard of this. I will also replace this bracket GM 3946000 as well, the alt/p/s bracket.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,490
Likes: 808
From: East Central Florida
Thanks Rich. You have convinced me to try to find a correct pump for this vehicle. Parts place says the pumps are interchangeable but there must be a boss on the old style or something different, bolt pattern through the brackets is the same. When I took this car apart a few years ago I noticed both p/s brackets were welded up a few times.I replaced the lower mounting bracket at that time. With BB,A/C and P/S, I am not looking forward to doing this for a 3rd time. Thanks for all your help with this sir. I will check the alternator pulley but it looks to be correct, the#s match on the alt as well as everything else on the car EXCEPT the p/s pump.Someone changed parts around years ago before I bought it.Back in the 70's 80's they didn't think to keep the original parts I suppose.
Your car is really nice!.
Your car is really nice!.
Sometimes it's a good idea to just start over from scratch with known good and correct parts. When/if you get those brackets off see if you can compare them to parts online. Corvette Central and Long island Corvette and Zip have great close ups of their parts. You may find your error by just comparing, or post good pictures here and we all can look see. Again, if you have trouble posting, send them to me and I'll post 'em for you.
Rich
p.s. I wish it was my '67. I restored it for a guy from Norway. It's very nice. He drives it all the time over there. Except winter of course.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,490
Likes: 808
From: East Central Florida
That could be but it looked like breaks in the metal that were welded up.I did see somewhere online that in 1968 a re designed bracket kit came out for the big blocks because of breakage.That's the first I have heard of this. I will also replace this bracket GM 3946000 as well, the alt/p/s bracket.
Group 6.606.......
http://gmpartswiki.com/getpage?pageid=51559
Rich
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,490
Likes: 808
From: East Central Florida
I've been giving this a little more thought.......
Is it possible your water pump pulley is either wrong, or if the WP hub is not located in the correct position on it's shaft?
Is the rear belt aligned properly? If the hub isn't pressed on in the correct position, it can throw everything off.
edit/add......Because the rear belt is very short, even a slight misalignment may not be obvious. Once you get out to the A/C, PS, and Alt belts, because they're further away, it would be more obvious. If the pulley is wrong it could do the same.
Something really weird going on and makes no sense.
Can you take some good photos of the front pulley area? it would help to get a clear view.
Rich
Is it possible your water pump pulley is either wrong, or if the WP hub is not located in the correct position on it's shaft?
Is the rear belt aligned properly? If the hub isn't pressed on in the correct position, it can throw everything off.
edit/add......Because the rear belt is very short, even a slight misalignment may not be obvious. Once you get out to the A/C, PS, and Alt belts, because they're further away, it would be more obvious. If the pulley is wrong it could do the same.
Something really weird going on and makes no sense.
Can you take some good photos of the front pulley area? it would help to get a clear view.
Rich
Last edited by rich5962; Nov 20, 2013 at 06:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
Hi Rich. Alt pulleys and a/c compressor belts all line up correctly.It's just the power steering side that's out of whack I am going to take everything apart again and start over until it is correct, including new brackets and correct pump, even though this pump is brand new.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Southern Md
It may be a while, probably next week as I just got my Air-o-matic p/s conversion for my M35A2 in last night.It's parked next to the 66.
Funny, I now have a 66 vette and a 70 Kaiser (Deuce) army truck side by side in the garage both getting power steering. Maybe.
Funny, I now have a 66 vette and a 70 Kaiser (Deuce) army truck side by side in the garage both getting power steering. Maybe.
Last edited by bonehead2; Nov 20, 2013 at 04:57 PM.
