Stamping Frame
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,997
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From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Just for an example, I looked for removing/stamping a VIN... in my State Criminal Statutes, it is a felony to:
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,945
Likes: 1,115
From: Hereford AZ
Just for an example, I looked for removing/stamping a VIN... in my State Criminal Statutes, it is a felony to:
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Pendleton IN
Le Mans Master
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From: Plano IL
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This issue has come up 8 bazillion times-----------------AND I'VE NEVER HAD AN ACCEPTABLE ANSWER!!!!!!!!
And here is my question.
If a car is badly wrecked, and the frame is bent, twisted, buckled, whatever (for example, the car is rearended and the rear part of the frame is buckled), and the rear of the frame is cut off and a new rear frame section is welded on, JUST HOW MUCH OF THE FRAME CAN BE REPLACED AND STILL RETAIN THE VIN???????????????????
So, now, one step further. If MOST of the frame is badly bent-------------BUT THE CENTER PORTION OF THE LEFT FRAME RAIL IS STILL STRAIGHT, WHY CAN'T THAT PART OF THE FRAME RAIL WITH THE VIN BE SPLICED INTO ANOTHER FRAME????????
Again, HOW MUCH OF A FRAME CAN BE CUT OFF AND REPLACED BEFORE IT BECOMES ILLEGAL????????
And here is my question.
If a car is badly wrecked, and the frame is bent, twisted, buckled, whatever (for example, the car is rearended and the rear part of the frame is buckled), and the rear of the frame is cut off and a new rear frame section is welded on, JUST HOW MUCH OF THE FRAME CAN BE REPLACED AND STILL RETAIN THE VIN???????????????????
So, now, one step further. If MOST of the frame is badly bent-------------BUT THE CENTER PORTION OF THE LEFT FRAME RAIL IS STILL STRAIGHT, WHY CAN'T THAT PART OF THE FRAME RAIL WITH THE VIN BE SPLICED INTO ANOTHER FRAME????????
Again, HOW MUCH OF A FRAME CAN BE CUT OFF AND REPLACED BEFORE IT BECOMES ILLEGAL????????
In the collision repair world - frames get repaired, sectioned and replaced every day. EVERY DAY !
Frames on full frame cars like vettes and frame sections in unibody cars
And as stated above - check your local state laws.
That being said.....
If you had a totally rusted/bent/bad frame and you swaped the vin to a new frame - would you tell anyone??????.......the answer is no. - - - just sayin....
Safety Car
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,787
Likes: 659
One reason why you cant get an acceptable answer is there's probably 50 of them. Questions that affect the VIN, or possibly doing so much structural repair to a car/frame that a car is now a "handbuilt" or some designation, is up to the state you are registered in. I know for a fact some states are very lax. Those states' DMVs are so loose people wash titles through there routinely. However, in other states, the DMV or the local LE (in IL, its the Secretary of State Police) is so nasty they will take a frame off your truck if you dont have a matching title with it.
The short answer is, check with your state.
The short answer is, check with your state.
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING..
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 108
Just for an example, I looked for removing/stamping a VIN... in my State Criminal Statutes, it is a felony to:
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
As to restamping the frame number, I don't think this would be any more illegal than restamping a VIN derivative on the engine pad. In fact, the pad is visible, where the frame stamp is not, so you would think that would get you in more hot water.
Finally, if the OP had his frame acid dipped instead of blasted, I bet he could see the original stamping, no matter how faint. On my 59, I could only see one VIN stamping before dipping, but after dipping, could clearly read both stampings.
Last edited by Loren Smith; Aug 29, 2014 at 10:47 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,215
Likes: 447
From: NJ Hockey beer league
Just for an example, I looked for removing/stamping a VIN... in my State Criminal Statutes, it is a felony to:
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
"(2) A person to knowingly remove, alter, deface,
destroy, falsify, or forge a manufacturer's identification number of a vehicle or an engine number of a motor vehicle or any essential part thereof having an identification number; "
A person in the business of repairs is allowed to replace a VIN plate in a dash. But it seems, in this case, "forging" a VIN on a frame is a bad idea.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,997
Likes: 6,213
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
While this may be true, I think the SPIRIT of the law is to deter thieves and not to prevent legitimate restoration on a documented car. I know of no state agencies that have a frame broach buster either. You can argue this point either way, but if you had pictures of your restoration and could document the old frame # the facts say restoration and not forgery with a correct VIN tag and matching title.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,945
Likes: 1,115
From: Hereford AZ
But like Tom touched on, what if you remove most of the frame from the VIN stamped portion, as opposed to removing the VIN stamped portion from most of the frame? How big a section do you have to keep/cut? I would suspect this statute is more geared towards swapping VIN tags than frame repair.
As to restamping the frame number, I don't think this would be any more illegal than restamping a VIN derivative on the engine pad. In fact, the pad is visible, where the frame stamp is not, so you would think that would get you in more hot water.
Finally, if the OP had his frame acid dipped instead of blasted, I bet he could see the original stamping, no matter how faint. On my 59, I could only see one VIN stamping before dipping, but after dipping, could clearly read both stampings.
As to restamping the frame number, I don't think this would be any more illegal than restamping a VIN derivative on the engine pad. In fact, the pad is visible, where the frame stamp is not, so you would think that would get you in more hot water.
Finally, if the OP had his frame acid dipped instead of blasted, I bet he could see the original stamping, no matter how faint. On my 59, I could only see one VIN stamping before dipping, but after dipping, could clearly read both stampings.
Man, I was going to leave this alone, but I like your logic. I did have the frame dipped, but afterward could only see some of the stamping.....faintly. Which I sort of still see. I was considering using some punch type dies to redo the VIN...however, it is true, no one will see the frame once done, and I am going to have it powder coated...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,945
Likes: 1,115
From: Hereford AZ
Man, I was going to leave this alone, but I like your logic. I did have the frame dipped, but afterward could only see some of the stamping.....faintly. Which I sort of still see. I was considering using some punch type dies to redo the VIN...however, it is true, no one will see the frame once done, and I am going to have it powder coated...
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 149
Likes: 1
From: Troutman North Carolina
I don't see why re-stamping the original vin # on the frame to clarify it would be a problem. Now the vin # on the plate that the factory rivets to the dash is a completely different story. I would think it only matters for a numbers matching vehicle situation where it would be inspected and needed to match the factory fonts exactly. Are other vehicles frames stamped, such as a chevelles , c series pickups , Camaro or nova subframes ? Just my 2 cents worth.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 108
Man, I was going to leave this alone, but I like your logic. I did have the frame dipped, but afterward could only see some of the stamping.....faintly. Which I sort of still see. I was considering using some punch type dies to redo the VIN...however, it is true, no one will see the frame once done, and I am going to have it powder coated...