VeroWing

Oh no!! I thought about bringing up "global warming", but thought better of it!

SDVette

This thread is a tough read.

Three failures on the same day is hard to reconcile. The engineer in me says that something had to 'happen' to the tires before this drive; something that created a pre-condition for the failures.

How many other times had you done long fast drives on them? How recently before the failures?

DRM500RUBYZR-1

Change or don't change your tires whenever you like.
Should you want anything further, do your own research.
Believe whatever you wish.
Don't let those pesky facts get in the way.

Try re-reading what I had in the earlier post:

"The Science of Aging:

“Tires are primarily degrading from the inside-out, due [to] permeation and reaction of the pressurized oxygen within the tire structure, with rates proportional to temperature.”

Summary of NHTSA Tire Aging Test Development Research

Tire aging is basically an issue of oxidation. As rubber is exposed to oxygen it dries out and becomes stiffer, leading to cracking. The issue is primarily about how the inner, “wedge” layers of rubber oxidize. The stiffening and cracking of aged rubber can lead to the inner layers of the tire delaminating from the steel belts rather than flexing with the steel as the tire rolls under weight.

There are essentially four major factors that determine how fast a tire will age:

The Inner Liner. The inner liner of any tire is a specialized butyl rubber compound that is designed to be impermeable to air so as to keep the air inside the tire where it belongs. No inner liner is completely impermeable, so some air will always leak slowly through the liner due to osmosis. The quality of the inner liner determines just how much air leaks through, and therefore how fast the inner structure of the tire is exposed to oxygen.
Oxygen Concentration. It's pretty easy to see that oxidation rates will increase when oxygen concentration is higher. What this means is that a tire that is mounted and filled with compressed air will age much faster than a tire that is simply being stored, because the air pressure is orders of magnitude higher in a filled tire, and more oxygen will permeate through the liner.
Heat. Oxidation of rubber occurs much faster under high heat than low heat. In essence, heat increases both the permeability and reactivity of oxygen, making it both easier for oxygen to get through the inner liner and easier for it to react with the rubber inside the tire.
Usage. When a tire is driven, the pressure and flexing motion circulate the internal oils through the rubber. These oils lubricate the internal rubber and keep it from drying and stiffening. So tires that are used less are often more vulnerable to aging effects.

The History of the Science:

In 1989, ADAC, Germany’s consumer advocacy group concluded: “Even tires that are just six years old – though they appear to be brand new – can present a safety risk. Tire experts even say that if they are not used, indeed, tires age more quickly.”

In 1990, vehicle manufacturers including BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, and GM Europe, among others, included in the owner's manual warnings that tires older than six years should only be used in an emergency and replaced as soon as possible.

The British Rubber Manufacturer's Association noted that “BRMA members strongly recommend that unused tyres should not be put into service if they are over 6 years old and that all tyres should be replaced 10 years from the date of their manufacture.”

In 2005, Ford, DaimlerChrysler and Bridgestone/Firestone added warnings that tires should be inspected at 5 years and replaced after 10. Michelin and Continental issued similar bulletins in 2006. Hankook did so in 2009.

In 2007, NHTSA's Research Report to Congress on Tire Aging presented clear evidence of both tire aging failures and the outsized effect of sustained heat on the aging mechanism.

“This trend was observed in NHTSA’s analysis of data provided by a large insurance company... It reported that 27 percent of its policy holders are from Texas, California, Louisiana, Florida, and Arizona, but 77 percent of the tire claims came from these states and 84 percent of these were for tires over 6 years old. While tire insurance claims are not necessarily an absolute measure of the failures due to aging, [they are] an indication that a large number of tire failures are likely occurring because of the affect of sustained high temperature on tires.”

NHTSA Research Report to Congress on Tire Aging.

When NHTSA conducted further testing in Arizona, they found not only that tires did show an increasing failure rate with age, especially at around 6 years, they also found that the rate of aging was only slightly less for spare tires..

“DOE analysis confirms that mileage was a relatively unimportant factor in [failures due to] aging compared to time. Thus time, not mileage, is the correct metric for tire aging... Besides variations from manufacturer to manufacturer, tire size, or more specifically, tire aspect ratio seems to effect the tire aging rate. Tires with higher aspect ratios age faster than tires with lower aspect ratios.”

Rubber Oxidation And Tire Aging - A Review.

“...the results support the hypothesis that spare tires could degrade while stored on the vehicle. This is a particular concern when coupled with the inflation pressures of full-size spare tires at retrieval. Over 30% of the passenger and light truck tires at the spare tire location had inflation pressures below the T&RA Load Table minimums. A recent study by the agency projected that more than 50% of passenger vehicles will still be on the road in the U.S. After 13 years of service, and more than 10% will still be on the road after 19 years. For light tucks, those figures go to 14 and 27 years respectively. Since few consumers replace their full-size spare tires when replacing on-road sets of tires, full-size spare tires have the potential for very long service lives. This elicits the logical concern that older full-size spare tires with possible degradations in capability may see emergency use while significantly underinflated.”

NHTSA Tire Aging Test Development Project: Phase 1

Higher speed rated tires degraded less – even on spare tires

“Results indicated a strong correlation to the speed rating of the tire, with the higher speed rated tires losing the least capability with increasing age and mileage.”
The above excerpted from:

The Science of Tire Aging
By Sean Phillips


Now Mike, I know you will likely ignore those facts as well, and that is fine.
Just don't keep saying there are no facts.
There clearly are facts, however they just do not support your argument.
But you just believe whatever you wish."



Darn, you caught me.
Everyone now knows the truth.
I try to make people throw away their old tires needlessly, so that I can buy them for multiples of what they cost new.
Wow, you saw right through that.
That is some darn good investigative work there.

The thread you found was when I was seeking tires for NCRS Flight Judging. But hey you caught me, I still have 21 year old tires on 21 year old new wheels that are put on for judging, but never for driving, and they live in shrink wrap in my basement.

Oh and for what it is worth, I never even thought of asking for a "trade in" on my trash tires. I don't sell my other trash, they just take it away.

Oh, and lastly just to be clear, you can argue this as long as you wish, but it makes no sense for me to continue pointing things out only so that you can misstate them. I just do not like the ride and slipperiness of old tires, which had nothing to do with age and blowouts.
So I am finished, and just hope someone took something away from all of this.

I too am very glad that nothing happened to the OP VeroWing, his wife, and that beautiful black mid year.

Oh and special mention to KELLSDAD for post # 16.
I neglected to mention earlier that it was hilarious!

Good luck with whatever you all decide to do, and

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Marty
NCRSZR1
95PACER

MikeM

Where is your conclusion related to all those things that I have already posted?

Wait. Let me save you some trouble. There is no scientifically based conclusion of when tires should be replaced strictly by age, is there?

If there was, you can sure betcha' some pol would have jumped all over it and passed a law. But they haven't because there is no SOLID evidence.

It just depends.................

The very best thing you can do for your safety with steel belted radial tires is to check them often for sidewall and tread bulges and be aware of any thumping, bouncing or noisy riding while on the road. If you find any of this, time to a closer inspection.

W Guy

It is hard to imagine that more than one tire would go bad at almost the same time, but it did happen to me. They made it from NJ to Charlotte but on the return trip one went before I got out of NC and one went at Richmond. I was able to stop by a friend's place and put on 4 good loaners to get me home. I immediately threw the others away. They were about 6 years old but had low mileage.

Verne

Bob K

I have never taken a trade in value on old tires. For me it's just a feel good measure.

Bob K.

MattB

Sorry, there is solid evidence. But, the factors are complex and it would be difficult to determine a formula that would work all the time. Just because a solid limit cannot be stated for all tires does not mean it is not a major factor or that there is a lack of solid evidence. Kind of means the opposite, we know a lot more about tires than we did decades ago.

I don't think necessarily that a tire should be thrown out at a particular age. But, if a tire is over 10 years old, I would be cautious of using it on a road race track or 1/4 mile. Even 7 or 8 would be cautionary IMO. I would not buy it, unless it was a really good deal and I was not competing on them (which means not 10/10ths effort). It may be perfectly fine on the highway for years and would defer to visual inspections as to the road worthiness of the tire on the road. But, very high stress situations I would pass.

Bias tires are not the safety bastions that you seem to think, and radials are not the hazard you think. If they were why would anyone race on them? Me, I have seen many bias trailer tires come apart.

MikeM

Well that was certainly enlightening!

It is but it isn't. I would but I won't. I would only use it certain places but I would use it.

Reminds minds me of the meaning of "is". Reminds me of this guy.

MikeM

I am surprised that wobble didn't make your KO, "fall off".

VeroWing

They're "bolt ons", but it was plenty wobbly, and I had to drive 20-25 miles on that one because I was out of options! I took down the video because link opened up my computer.

cv67

Im surprised at the amount of owners who sink 50k plus into these cars and risk it all because they are too cheap to buy some tires or worried someone at a stoplight will point and laugh because they arent period correct.

Use brake pads from the junkyard too?

MikeM

Yes, I am surprised at this statement also.

No air bags.

No shoulder harness.

Passed no crash standards for passenger intrusion or any other standard for that matter.

They are gross emissions polluters.

No rack/pinion steering.

Skinny tires at best.

No bumper protection.

20K to repaint one.

All the reproduction parts are junk.

Frames are half rotted in two.

Poor fuel mileage (by today's standards)

Most have no AC, radio reception is poor, most have no PS/PBs, PWs.

They leak like a sieve.

The list could go on and on...................................

Gary's '66

Hmmmmm. If, in fact, the NHTSA report is correct and that OXYGEN is the main cause of internal de-lamination and structural break down of our tires then I have to wonder if running nitrogen would be a good alternative therefore increasing a tires longevity.

MikeM

See post #60. Your garage air compressor is putting about 78% nitrogen in every tire it inflates.

You'd probably be better served by keeping the moisture out of your air that you use to inflate tires.

SDVette

Yes, nitrogen is inert (does not react with other material), and it also expands less than air when heated.. All good things as far as tires go... but you *DO* need a source of pure nitrogen every time you top off your tires..

TCracingCA

Of the jealous or feuding neighbor that tried to take you out! Just because there aren't enough conspiracy theories on our forum!

Gary's '66

While I'm not sure how it could administered at home, I do know that almost every the tire shop (at least in my neck of the woods) now offers nitrogen.

65GGvert

The blowouts couldn't have been caused by age because the fourth tire was the same age and it didn't blow out.

tuxnharley

JohnZ

That's because Nitrogen has become the "Fat Profit Of The Year" miracle item they can foist off on people who don't know any better. It's interesting to note that NOT ONE OEM manufacturer endorses, encourages, or recommends Nitrogen or any of its claims.