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ZZ4 roller lifter issues

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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 03:28 AM
  #21  
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I would read the manufacturers guidelines for lifter installation and start up. I don't think any of them would advise pre oiling the lifter internally. They will advise using a quality engine assembly oil on the cam, lifter bores and lifters to avoid any issues prior to the engine oiling system taking over and aid with cam break in.
For 55 years the old system has worked. Lifters are shipped pre loaded with Stoddard solvent to help with your start up and to avoid any rust issues from the time of manufacture till you actually run them. Stoddard solvent works well for this job. No need to pre load them with oil. If you drained the solvent from all 16 lifters I don't think it would fill a thimble so no need to worry about dilution.
GM did not pre fill lifters with oil, no need for you to.
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 09:50 AM
  #22  
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The spring was another issue I worried about. the lifters that came out with only 3,500 miles had movement that I could initiate by hand. The new ones not at all. I had no frame of reference as to which condition was the correct one. The prevailing opinion of the people I asked was that this was "normal" - new springs had a great deal of resistance, after they had run, not so much. I was told it wasn't an issue as the oil would replace the stiff resistance of the new springs as they "wore in"
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 11:45 AM
  #23  
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When working on a engine everything has to always be kept as clean as possible. Any Spec of dirt or metal that enters the engine can cause a lifter to stop working. The lifter has the tightest tolerance of any part in the engine so it is the last filter. If something gets in a lifter many times the only solution is to replace it. Sometimes you can adjust it up and down and work the particle loose, I have had some guys say they sometimes get lifters freed up by blowing high pressure air back down the push rod to loosen a lifter but once one starts clacking and wont adjust they are normally done.
Maybe yours stuck down leaving it loose causing your issue. Sometimes it just happens.
There is no need to keep your engine under 3,000 RPM for break in. RPM is dangerous only in the first minutes of break in. After the first 20-30 minutes run time they are good to run. RPM does not scare me at all on a new engine. Heck racers assemble the engine and race an hour later. Heat and bad tune is what ruins engines. Keep it cool, tune it well and drive it. Hope you are running again soon.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 09:18 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Westlotorn
I would read the manufacturers guidelines for lifter installation and start up. I don't think any of them would advise pre oiling the lifter internally. They will advise using a quality engine assembly oil on the cam, lifter bores and lifters to avoid any issues prior to the engine oiling system taking over and aid with cam break in.
For 55 years the old system has worked. Lifters are shipped pre loaded with Stoddard solvent to help with your start up and to avoid any rust issues from the time of manufacture till you actually run them. Stoddard solvent works well for this job. No need to pre load them with oil. If you drained the solvent from all 16 lifters I don't think it would fill a thimble so no need to worry about dilution.
GM did not pre fill lifters with oil, no need for you to.
Try it without pre oiling and wait for the lifter to fill while it 's banging away on your cam lobe.
One of my old GM manuals ( I think it's 1958) says it can take up to 40 minuets for them to fill and quiet down.
I have a accumulator I fill with oil to fill litters that are required to be emptyon installation. It screws on the plug at the end of the oil galary and pressurized the oil backwards to the pump while filling the litters with the engine stopped.
I believe they can't be shipped with oil.

Do
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 01:48 PM
  #25  
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Kinda funny to read as it becomes confusing with so many shade tree mechanic ways to adj the lifter preload let a lone prelube the lifters. But when swapping cams and installing new lifters i dont get very OCD on the prelube. Usually just let them soak in a cleaned coffee can full of engine oil, wipe the lifter surface and cam lobes with high press cam lube before install. If i feel needed i squirt oil all over the rocker arms and springs. I cant seem to push down the lifter cup to pump anything. But for an entire engine break in i try and prelube the engine.

Well the oil pump pushes like 10-20psi at idle and it fills up the oil galleys quite fast on start up. For those that are worried u can buy all kinds of prelube tools and I know of owners using the tool in the distributor hole powered by a drill and run it until oil comes out the top of the p-rods into the rockers. The ones ive used have always given me problems and i will only use a cannibalized chevy dist to spin the oil pump. But the lifter has to be all the way down on the base circle (vlv closed) for oil to enter the fill/blead hole where it can line up correctly with the oil galley - so some lifters wont see oil galley pressure until the engine turns - other wise it fills through the very tight lifter to bore clearance. Myself i wouldnt wait for oil to come out the p-rods - a few minutes at most to fill the oil galleys will do it. If u have an oil press gauge then have someone watch it and if it starts indicating press u have oil in the galleys trying to enter the lifter.

The Chevy corvette shop manual is a good reference as is the Chevy Power Manual - i believe the CPM has assembly instruction but dont have mine handy right now. Hope this helps more than confuses.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 11:09 PM
  #26  
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Default Mineral spirits.

Thats what they say to use over on the camaro forums. They say to soak the new hyd roller lifters in mineral spirits to remove the packing preservatives - what ever it is.

Just thought i would pass that along.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 03:05 AM
  #27  
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We sold literally millions of lifers in the 80's and 90's, most sold direct to the large Production Engine Rebuilders. One of those built 65,000 engines in 1998, others built as many as 1,500 per month, many built 500 or more engines per month. We probably had 60% of the lifter business back then. Multiply those numbers by 16 lifters per engine and we got a lot of feedback. Lifters are shipped ready to drop in and run. Yes they have Stoddard solvent inside because it was proven to work the best for storage and initial start up.
No BS, just facts.
About once or twice a year we got a call from someone that bent the push rods on start up. When we asked how they lubed the lifters they would always say: " I just dropped them all in a can of oil and let them soak a while". I remember it being Pontiac Engines that did this the most. Soaking or pre filling the lifter makes it less forgiving on start up. If you are good enough to adjust them perfectly that method works fine, if you are not that good you just might bend valves. This was a long time ago but Sealed Power owned Johnson Hy-Lift. They built a lot of lifters and I just tried to share the experience learned. We sold Hy-Lift in the mid to late 90's and the lifter business quieted down for us.
I was one of the team that took the Warranty issues in the field, met with the Machine Shop owners and worked to settle warranty. I saw more camshafts with flat lobes than most in this world. 95% of the time it was break in issues.
Any spec of dirt can cause a lifter to stick. The spec could have been left there in manufacturing, could have got there while shipping the product or it could happen in your garage as you install the part or it can happen in the engine when you fire it up.
If the Tin, oil pan, valve covers, intake manifold splash pan or timing cover are not cleaned properly the dirt inside will come back and haunt you later on a new engine install.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 12:56 PM
  #28  
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Thx for elaborating here W. Its helpful to read your experience here. Funny u mention Pontiac engines were the worst. I recall reading in my pontiac shop manual for my '70 GTO the lifters were adjusted using a "torque" value. Yes something like 10 or 20 ft-lbs (or maybe it was in-lbs). Im sure your laughing but it seemed to work as back then i didnt know any different and it even worked for my car - didnt wipe that cam. Im kinda surprised now and no way would i ever do that again. But thats what the manual said back then.

Anyways i read alot on the camaro forums with the new hyd roller lifters they soak them in mineral spirits to "clean the preservative" before installing them. My self i have tried to pump new oil in the new lifters but cant move the cup so just let them soak instead. Personally i dont see how motor oil could do a lifter any harm where ever u put it. Yes dirt is our enemy here i agree. What most owners find is they can only do what they can do and leave the fancy tricks to those that have the tools. It is what it is.

Last edited by cardo0; Jun 18, 2015 at 12:59 PM.
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Old Jun 22, 2015 | 01:32 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by cardo0
Thats what they say to use over on the camaro forums. They say to soak the new hyd roller lifters in mineral spirits to remove the packing preservatives - what ever it is.

Just thought i would pass that along.
Keep in mind the info I shared is old now. 2004 was the last year I worked in that area full time so my information may be obsolete.
If the lifters are now made overseas they may coat them to avoid rust while crossing the ocean. If this is true today it may be necessary to wash them with solvent/mineral spirits. Lifters were made either in the USA or Mexico when I knew the business and these were not coated for shipment. A lot of product has moved overseas in the last 10 years and maybe lifters went that way also. Worth checking into.
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