The gears only turn 1/2 of their circumference for their whole life. If the gear is indeed galled/bent some, just turn it over and you will have a brandy new gear. 
64 Headlight problem
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 177
From: Easton PA
64 Headlight problem
Searched the Archives, and couldn't really find an answer to this problem.
Short of the long is, it's a 64 that had the buckets and motors completely rebuilt from scratch, as the whole nose was glassed in when I got it. It's now restored to factory spec's. as all new repro parts were needed. That was two years ago and the buckets have been working great, until about 2 weeks ago when the drivers side stopped opening, (passenger side opens and closes fine) the motor is working, I can hear it running, but the bucket doesn't engage, also won't move with the hand wheel either. It will however work if someone lightly pulls up on it when I pull on the switch, it then goes all the way up and back down with no problems. And as long as I don't park it all the way down, I can keep going up and down all day, but as soon as it's closed all the way, it needs to be boosted open again.
Can anyone tell me where I need to look first, I have no idea where to start??? I know one of you guy's must have run into this....
Thanks in advance....
Short of the long is, it's a 64 that had the buckets and motors completely rebuilt from scratch, as the whole nose was glassed in when I got it. It's now restored to factory spec's. as all new repro parts were needed. That was two years ago and the buckets have been working great, until about 2 weeks ago when the drivers side stopped opening, (passenger side opens and closes fine) the motor is working, I can hear it running, but the bucket doesn't engage, also won't move with the hand wheel either. It will however work if someone lightly pulls up on it when I pull on the switch, it then goes all the way up and back down with no problems. And as long as I don't park it all the way down, I can keep going up and down all day, but as soon as it's closed all the way, it needs to be boosted open again.
Can anyone tell me where I need to look first, I have no idea where to start??? I know one of you guy's must have run into this....
Thanks in advance....
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 54,073
Likes: 9,398
From: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
2024 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
Pull the headlight motor and open it up. I'm no expert but either the gear is junk or the grease is jelled up
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 177
From: Easton PA
I can see the gear "maybe" being a problem, but do you really think the grease could be jelled up in only 2 yrs' time....these were brand new motors, and the gear seems to be fine all the way up and down once it gets an initial boost???
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 54,073
Likes: 9,398
From: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
2024 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
Likes: 7,145
Army
Removing the motor is an electrical connector, a hairpin clip and a bolt - you don't have to remove the hood if you're careful. A 10 minute job. Then you can test the headlight bucket. It should roll up and down with the flick of two fingers; if not that's your trouble. If it works your main gear in the motor is most likely galled. Secondarily, you may have corrosion in the harness/connector not allowing full current to the motor (since you say you hear it running). I doubt the last part though if even the thumbwheel doesn't work.
My money is on the main motor drive gear being shot...if somebody 'gooses' the bucket a bit and that makes the headlight work its prob because the motor is getting some 'bite' on a remaining good tooth on the drive gear. When the bucket is allowed to fully close you're in the galled tooth area again.
My money is on the main motor drive gear being shot...if somebody 'gooses' the bucket a bit and that makes the headlight work its prob because the motor is getting some 'bite' on a remaining good tooth on the drive gear. When the bucket is allowed to fully close you're in the galled tooth area again.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Aug 3, 2015 at 06:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 177
From: Easton PA
Removing the motor is an electrical connector, a hairpin clip and a bolt - you don't have to remove the hood if you're careful. A 10 minute job. Then you can test the headlight bucket. It should roll up and down with the flick of two fingers; if not that's your trouble. If it works your main gear in the motor is most likely galled. Secondarily, you may have corrosion in the harness/connector not allowing full current to the motor (since you say you hear it running). I doubt the last part though if even the thumbwheel doesn't work.
My money is on the main motor drive gear being shot...if somebody 'gooses' the bucket a bit and that makes the headlight work its prob because the motor is getting some 'bite' on a remaining good tooth on the drive gear. When the bucket is allowed to fully close you're in the galled tooth area again.
My money is on the main motor drive gear being shot...if somebody 'gooses' the bucket a bit and that makes the headlight work its prob because the motor is getting some 'bite' on a remaining good tooth on the drive gear. When the bucket is allowed to fully close you're in the galled tooth area again.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 177
From: Easton PA
Ok guy's. got home from work and went right out to the garage, and with Frankie and Dave's advice in mind I had the motor out in 10 min. After determining that the bucket moved freely by hand, I proceeded to take the gear cover off the motor. And just as you guy's, along with "Nowhere Man" all predicted, sure enough the gear was all worn down on one side. Per your instructions, a simple 180* rotation of the gear and some re-greasing fixed it right up. Threw it all back together and the buckets work like new again. And the whole process took me all of a half hour. Thanks for all the help, you guy's make these jobs a lot easier to deal with. I just can't believe that the darn thing wore out in under 2 years, although I did run em' up and down a lot when I first had them repaired as I was so happy to see them working...
I took a couple of pic's, but I didn't think to take them until after I greased it up. but if you zoom in closely you can see how the teeth were inversely concaved on the right side...(after the flip)
I took a couple of pic's, but I didn't think to take them until after I greased it up. but if you zoom in closely you can see how the teeth were inversely concaved on the right side...(after the flip)
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
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Army
You were lucky with the 180* gear flip - it doesn't always work depending on how bad the gear is galled. I don't recommend it anymore since correct repro gears are now available so cheaply - glad it worked for you.
My theory is that after one of the lights gets slow the driver has to hang on that dash switch to get that one upright or completely closed; all the while the motor on the 'quick' side is grinding away and eventually the gears pay the price.
Unfortunately the 'limit switches' in our C2s limit nothing. However there is a YouTube video on how to convert them to real limit switches which cut power when the buckets come to rest or fully open. Lots of trouble though for something that's not that hard to fix..
My theory is that after one of the lights gets slow the driver has to hang on that dash switch to get that one upright or completely closed; all the while the motor on the 'quick' side is grinding away and eventually the gears pay the price.
Unfortunately the 'limit switches' in our C2s limit nothing. However there is a YouTube video on how to convert them to real limit switches which cut power when the buckets come to rest or fully open. Lots of trouble though for something that's not that hard to fix..
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Aug 4, 2015 at 08:00 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 54,073
Likes: 9,398
From: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
2024 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
You were lucky with the 180* gear flip - it doesn't always work depending on how bad the gear is galled. I don't recommend it anymore since correct repro gears are now available so cheaply - glad it worked for you.
My theory is that after one of the lights gets slow the driver has to hang on that dash switch to get that one upright or completely closed; all the while the motor on the 'quick' side is grinding away and eventually the gears pay the price.
Unfortunately the 'limit switches' in our C2s limit nothing. However there is a YouTube video on how to convert them to real limit switches which cut power when the buckets come to rest or fully open. Lots of trouble though for something that's not that hard to fix..
My theory is that after one of the lights gets slow the driver has to hang on that dash switch to get that one upright or completely closed; all the while the motor on the 'quick' side is grinding away and eventually the gears pay the price.
Unfortunately the 'limit switches' in our C2s limit nothing. However there is a YouTube video on how to convert them to real limit switches which cut power when the buckets come to rest or fully open. Lots of trouble though for something that's not that hard to fix..
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 334
Same thing happen to me. The reproduction gear is junk. Compare it to an original and you will see how much thinner the teeth are then the real deal. Another situation where they spend the money on tooling only to make a weak gear.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 177
From: Easton PA
You were lucky with the 180* gear flip - it doesn't always work depending on how bad the gear is galled. I don't recommend it anymore since correct repro gears are now available so cheaply - glad it worked for you.
My theory is that after one of the lights gets slow the driver has to hang on that dash switch to get that one upright or completely closed; all the while the motor on the 'quick' side is grinding away and eventually the gears pay the price.
Unfortunately the 'limit switches' in our C2s limit nothing. However there is a YouTube video on how to convert them to real limit switches which cut power when the buckets come to rest or fully open. Lots of trouble though for something that's not that hard to fix..
My theory is that after one of the lights gets slow the driver has to hang on that dash switch to get that one upright or completely closed; all the while the motor on the 'quick' side is grinding away and eventually the gears pay the price.
Unfortunately the 'limit switches' in our C2s limit nothing. However there is a YouTube video on how to convert them to real limit switches which cut power when the buckets come to rest or fully open. Lots of trouble though for something that's not that hard to fix..
I didn't know you could buy new gears, I haven't noticed them in any catalogs. I will have to get a pair to keep just in case.
Although, if this happens again I might have to consider the new Detroit Motor system, they look like a pretty sweet system.
Thanks again for the help and advice, it's nice to have it working again.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
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Army
The later repro gears work fine; I understand the older ones had issues.
They are what they are.
Anyway, what's your alternative if you have a worn out original ? NOS - not likely ? Original - worn out as well ? Rebuilt motor - guarantee it has a repro gear ?
The later repro gears will prob outlast the car's owner for the few times the headlights come up/go down on classic cars.
They are what they are.
Anyway, what's your alternative if you have a worn out original ? NOS - not likely ? Original - worn out as well ? Rebuilt motor - guarantee it has a repro gear ?
The later repro gears will prob outlast the car's owner for the few times the headlights come up/go down on classic cars.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 177
From: Easton PA
The later repro gears will prob outlast the car's owner for the few times the headlights come up/go down on classic cars.[/QUOTE]
Yep....probably will. Looks like Paragon has them for about 26 bucks,
I think I'll order one to keep on hand, since this one went so fast.
Thanks again for the help........much appreciated.
Yep....probably will. Looks like Paragon has them for about 26 bucks,
I think I'll order one to keep on hand, since this one went so fast.
Thanks again for the help........much appreciated.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 334
I think I'll order one to keep on hand, since this one went so fast.
Thanks again for the help........much appreciated.
[/QUOTE]I was told you need to operate at least once/month to keep motors from freezing up.