Problem with the one piece points /condenser setup
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 378
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From: Montrose New York
Problem with the one piece points /condenser setup
My buddy just called to tell me that he is having problems with his Corvette. He just installed two sets of the one piece points/condenser sets. After installing the car wont start. He removed both sets and reinstalled the individual point set and condenser and the car fired right up. So he reinstalled the one piece set and again the motor won't run. He tells me he has tried 3 different new sets of the one piece unit thinking that maybe he got a bad set, but he says none of them work. Has anyone else used these and had a similar experience? Any Idea what he may be doing wrong or has to do differently when using the one piece point/condenser set up? Thanks for your comments.
Don
Don
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Greenville, Indiana
Did he set the dwell on the points?
I bought one set of uni-points years ago when they first came out. I didn't like them if for no other reason than it was tough to get a feeler gauged in there to set the gap.
A dwell meter back then would have been a real luxury.
I bought one set of uni-points years ago when they first came out. I didn't like them if for no other reason than it was tough to get a feeler gauged in there to set the gap.
A dwell meter back then would have been a real luxury.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 378
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From: Montrose New York
yes he said he did. This guy is pretty good around cars he built the motor in his car himself years ago. I suspect the uni-point set is grounding out somehow and suggested he use a test light across the points to check for voltage. He is going to reinstall the Uni-point set and check that now.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
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From: Greenville, Indiana
yes he said he did. This guy is pretty good around cars he built the motor in his car himself years ago. I suspect the uni-point set is grounding out somehow and suggested he use a test light across the points to check for voltage. He is going to reinstall the Uni-point set and check that now.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2010
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2018 C2 of Year Finalist
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I used the AC D1007 one-piece point and condenser back in the day. They were more of a novelty and easy to install, but I never had a problem with them. I have to ask again, did your buddy make sure they were nominally adjusted (would open and close) before he tried to start the engine? No telling how they come out of the box.
Now I prefer the D106PS – terminals attach with a screw – and separate condenser D204.
Now I prefer the D106PS – terminals attach with a screw – and separate condenser D204.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 378
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From: Montrose New York
thanks for the responses, I just called him and gave him your suggestions. We'll see what happens with the test light. He did say he tried to use a dwell meter but was getting NO reading and unable to adjust them with the meter.
Don
Don
Last edited by wraplock; Nov 6, 2015 at 02:48 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Greenville, Indiana
Sounds like he has found the problem. Either the meter is not working or the points aren't opening/closing.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Greenville, Indiana
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Bowling Green, Kentucky
You are probably correct, but the unisets are pretty old at this point in time (2015). Maybe the condensers are failing after 40 years. 
I NEVER liked these setups...............just give me a Delco D112P point set and a D 204 condenser.
Larry
EDIT: If I remember correctly, the unisets had a metal two piece cover over them on some (or all) distributors. Could the installation be incorrect and the coil to distributor wire is grounding out against the cover?? Had this happen to me once with my old motorcycle in a similar setup. Took me almost forever to track it down.
I NEVER liked these setups...............just give me a Delco D112P point set and a D 204 condenser.
Larry
EDIT: If I remember correctly, the unisets had a metal two piece cover over them on some (or all) distributors. Could the installation be incorrect and the coil to distributor wire is grounding out against the cover?? Had this happen to me once with my old motorcycle in a similar setup. Took me almost forever to track it down.
Last edited by Powershift; Nov 6, 2015 at 07:36 PM.
Melting Slicks
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2018 C2 of Year Finalist
2015 C2 of the Year Finalist
I have to agree. I believe his static setting is so far off that the points are either not opening or not closing.
The OP didn't specify if they were old or new. I assumed they were new since he had three. AC Delco still makes and sells the one-piece units (D1007). http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-d1007
wraplock - have your buddy bump his engine starter until the point cam follower rests at close as possible to being on the top of the distributor cam lobe. Then adjust the point gap to .019 (eyeball). The engine should start and then he can adjust to 30* with his dwell meter.
wraplock - have your buddy bump his engine starter until the point cam follower rests at close as possible to being on the top of the distributor cam lobe. Then adjust the point gap to .019 (eyeball). The engine should start and then he can adjust to 30* with his dwell meter.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,317
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From: Ocala FL
Read this note:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590529965
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590529965
Throw those (I'm not going to band camp) Uniset points away and NEVER buy another set.
Get on eBay and buy a set of real Delco D106PV or D112 or Borg Warner A112 points. The 112 set are the heavy duty and give less point bounce at high rpm. You might also check Carquest, NAPA, or a local Delco distributor.
Get on eBay and buy a set of real Delco D106PV or D112 or Borg Warner A112 points. The 112 set are the heavy duty and give less point bounce at high rpm. You might also check Carquest, NAPA, or a local Delco distributor.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,317
Likes: 291
From: Ocala FL
Actually, read this one on how to check that ignition and get it running.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590529933
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590529933
1. Connect test light ground to known good ground. Check by checking test light on the positive of the battery or the positive on the alternator. Light should come on.
2. Do not disconnect the ground. Connect the test light to the positive side of the coil. Turn on the ignition. Light should come on, maybe weakly.
If no light, the resistor could be bad.
- Check both sides of the resistor on the firewall.
---- If the light is on one end only (ignition switch side), replace resistor.
---- If on both sides, wire between resistor and coil is bad.
---- If no light on either end, then check the back of the ignition switch to find power on the ignition wire (18 ga pink).
3. If no light on coil, crank the engine. Light should come on. If not, wire (18 ga pink) from starter solenoid to the coil is bad or missing. Rarely the solenoid contact is bad.
4. If light on the positive side of coil, connect test light to negative side of coil. There may be a light. Crank engine. The light should flash.
-- If there is a light and it doesn't flash, the points are not closing or the wire from the coil to the points is broken or disconnected.
-- If there is no light and it doesn't flash when cranked, the wire is grounded.
---- Points are too tight and never open. Adjust point gap to 0.018 inch.
---- Points have arced and welded themselves shut. Replace points.
---- Uniset points typically do this with a shorted condenser. Throw those stinking uniset points away and use real separate points and condenser.
---- Condenser may have shorted with age and heat. Disconnect condenser wire, repeat cranking the engine. If light flashes, install a new condenser. Cut the wire off the bad one and trash it immediately.
NOTE: Any condenser that connects to the ignition wire could short with age. Also, new ones can have early death within the first couple of days and you can't imagine it because "they are new". The easiest check if a condenser is bad is to disconnect it. The car will run without it, but it will burn up points quickly, so do this only to test for a bad condenser or to get yourself home from the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night.
I hate Uniset points and condensers. If I ever had ignition problems it was with them. I refuse to ever run them in anything in the last 35 years. If you have a set, THROW THEM AWAY! I have run points to where there was no button on the arm and managed to get home in a pinch, but a Uniset will strand you in the middle of nowhere in a heartbeat.
2. Do not disconnect the ground. Connect the test light to the positive side of the coil. Turn on the ignition. Light should come on, maybe weakly.
If no light, the resistor could be bad.
- Check both sides of the resistor on the firewall.
---- If the light is on one end only (ignition switch side), replace resistor.
---- If on both sides, wire between resistor and coil is bad.
---- If no light on either end, then check the back of the ignition switch to find power on the ignition wire (18 ga pink).
3. If no light on coil, crank the engine. Light should come on. If not, wire (18 ga pink) from starter solenoid to the coil is bad or missing. Rarely the solenoid contact is bad.
4. If light on the positive side of coil, connect test light to negative side of coil. There may be a light. Crank engine. The light should flash.
-- If there is a light and it doesn't flash, the points are not closing or the wire from the coil to the points is broken or disconnected.
-- If there is no light and it doesn't flash when cranked, the wire is grounded.
---- Points are too tight and never open. Adjust point gap to 0.018 inch.
---- Points have arced and welded themselves shut. Replace points.
---- Uniset points typically do this with a shorted condenser. Throw those stinking uniset points away and use real separate points and condenser.
---- Condenser may have shorted with age and heat. Disconnect condenser wire, repeat cranking the engine. If light flashes, install a new condenser. Cut the wire off the bad one and trash it immediately.
NOTE: Any condenser that connects to the ignition wire could short with age. Also, new ones can have early death within the first couple of days and you can't imagine it because "they are new". The easiest check if a condenser is bad is to disconnect it. The car will run without it, but it will burn up points quickly, so do this only to test for a bad condenser or to get yourself home from the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night.
I hate Uniset points and condensers. If I ever had ignition problems it was with them. I refuse to ever run them in anything in the last 35 years. If you have a set, THROW THEM AWAY! I have run points to where there was no button on the arm and managed to get home in a pinch, but a Uniset will strand you in the middle of nowhere in a heartbeat.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 378
Likes: 16
From: Montrose New York
Ok he got it running, human error (LOL). He is still chasing a miss. He's changing out the wires and the coil. I think he has a problem with the Holley spread bore carb he's using. He says if the miss is still there after the wires and coil (It was time to swap them anyway) he is going to re-install his Edelbrock Q-jet and see if the miss disappears.
Thanks for all the help much appreciated!
Don
Thanks for all the help much appreciated!
Don
Last edited by wraplock; Nov 7, 2015 at 01:29 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Bowling Green, Kentucky
Ok he got it running, human error (LOL). He is still chasing a miss. He's changing out the wires and the coil. I think he has a problem with the Holley spread bore carb he's using. He says if the miss is still there after the wires and coil (It was time to swap them anyway) he is going to re-install his Edelbrock Q-jet and see if the miss disappears.
Thanks for all the help much appreciated!
Don
Thanks for all the help much appreciated!
Don
The answer may help others doing similar work.
Larry
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,124
Likes: 181
From: Concord CA
I am perplexed why people would waste their time with mechanical points....they wear down, develop pits, and rely on moving parts.
I removed my points and condenser on my 58 and put in the Pertronics...using the same original distributor. You can't see it unless you pop off the distributer cap.
With the points, I could see that my timing mark would vary...but with the Pertronics it is solid as a rock at high and low RPM's.
I removed my points and condenser on my 58 and put in the Pertronics...using the same original distributor. You can't see it unless you pop off the distributer cap.
With the points, I could see that my timing mark would vary...but with the Pertronics it is solid as a rock at high and low RPM's.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
Likes: 1,874
From: Greenville, Indiana
I am perplexed why people would waste their time with mechanical points....they wear down, develop pits, and rely on moving parts.
I removed my points and condenser on my 58 and put in the Pertronics...using the same original distributor. You can't see it unless you pop off the distributer cap.
With the points, I could see that my timing mark would vary...but with the Pertronics it is solid as a rock at high and low RPM's.
I removed my points and condenser on my 58 and put in the Pertronics...using the same original distributor. You can't see it unless you pop off the distributer cap.
With the points, I could see that my timing mark would vary...but with the Pertronics it is solid as a rock at high and low RPM's.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,124
Likes: 181
From: Concord CA
If my distributor was worn out...you'd see the variation.
The reason you get variation with points is because they "arc" and create an "oxidized" surface where variations in spacing can exist. The arc will go to the point of least resistance and that resistance keeps changing on the surface level of the points....which can result in variations of timing.
The reason you get variation with points is because they "arc" and create an "oxidized" surface where variations in spacing can exist. The arc will go to the point of least resistance and that resistance keeps changing on the surface level of the points....which can result in variations of timing.
Last edited by jusplainwacky; Nov 7, 2015 at 03:42 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
Likes: 1,874
From: Greenville, Indiana
If my distributor was worn out...you'd see the variation.
The reason you get variation with points is because they "arc" and create an "oxidized" surface where variations in spacing can exist. The arc will go to the point of least resistance and that resistance keeps changing on the surface level of the points....which can result in variations of timing.
The reason you get variation with points is because they "arc" and create an "oxidized" surface where variations in spacing can exist. The arc will go to the point of least resistance and that resistance keeps changing on the surface level of the points....which can result in variations of timing.
A worn distributor shaft and/or bushing will readily show timing changes with points. I've been told not so with the Pertronix.
I've never been towed in with inop points in my 58 years of driving. I have been towed in a number of times because some electronic gizmo that controls engine operation quit working and I "couldn't see it" therefore I couldn't fix it alongside the road.
I hope your experience is better than the cast of thousands that report in here weekly that their car won't run and by the way, it has the Pertronix ignition installed.
I have five old cars with point ignition. Those points have been in the engines anywhere from 8 to 20 years without any attention at all.
Last edited by MikeM; Nov 7, 2015 at 04:02 PM.