[C2] cam choice
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
cam choice
Hi all,
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
Safety Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,797
Likes: 239
From: Ocean Township NJ
Hi all,
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
SWC Duke recommends his "300 HP Special" cam.
The stock replacement for the 327/350 HP cam is Sealed Power CS-179R which will be "fine" with your compression ratio although it was always used with nominal 11:1 SCR.
Any of these have gentle valve action and are used with the stock GM valve springs.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; Feb 12, 2017 at 09:49 AM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
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The actual CR of typical OE 327/300s is no more than 10:1 and they should run detonation-free on European 98 RON fuel. They might even be okay with the next lower octane. You should run a test. CR specs back in the day were as over rated as horsepower.
Installing the 350 HP cam in a 327/300 has been common for decades, but it will change the idle behavior and be a dead giveaway that the engine has been modified.
If you want to maintain OE idle behavior with the stump pulling low end torque of the 300 HP engine and the top end power and revs of the 350 HP engine you can do a "Special 300 HP" config. with the McCagh Special camshaft.
Search for threads started by me and download the "Tale of Two Camshafts" pdf. You should also check out some the the other threads in that list like the compression ratio paper and tuning seminar.
Regardless of which path you follow replace the OE connecting rods. Your engine has the first design 327 rods that are weak at the bolt seats and subject to fatigue failure.
Duke
Installing the 350 HP cam in a 327/300 has been common for decades, but it will change the idle behavior and be a dead giveaway that the engine has been modified.
If you want to maintain OE idle behavior with the stump pulling low end torque of the 300 HP engine and the top end power and revs of the 350 HP engine you can do a "Special 300 HP" config. with the McCagh Special camshaft.
Search for threads started by me and download the "Tale of Two Camshafts" pdf. You should also check out some the the other threads in that list like the compression ratio paper and tuning seminar.
Regardless of which path you follow replace the OE connecting rods. Your engine has the first design 327 rods that are weak at the bolt seats and subject to fatigue failure.
Duke
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
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The large bearing base 350 rods are a lot more durable than the first design 327 rods and even the second design 327 rods that went into production in '66. (Both are small bearing.)
Plain vanilla 350 rods are okay for reuse unless the maximum design speed is over 6000.
Duke
Plain vanilla 350 rods are okay for reuse unless the maximum design speed is over 6000.
Duke
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
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From: Greenville, Indiana
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,892
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From: Middletown Ohio
2016 C1 of Year Finalist
I agree with Mike.
The 327/350 HP cam is the way to go.
Engine sounds great and with a LSA of 114 it creates a excellent vacuum signal.
But I admit is miss the solid lifter noise.
The 327/350 HP cam is the way to go.
Engine sounds great and with a LSA of 114 it creates a excellent vacuum signal.
But I admit is miss the solid lifter noise.
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Intermediate
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Hi all,
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
Once you get to about 220-222 on the intake side, you've reached the point whereby you start losing enough vacuum at idle for power brakes (if you have them). Lobe separation angle plays a big part in cam selection.
Do yourself a favor and use Crane H-278-2 (grind number) 113801 (part number)
http://www.cranecams.com/56-67.pdf
222 Intake 234 Exhaust 114 lobe separation.
Invest in some reduced stem manley valves and this cam with those valves are worth probably 30HP over the other cams above. Valve springs and some scat rods will make the motor live forever.
Disclosure, I have used this cam profile multiple times for the use you're looking for and I used to build performance engines. The track was my dyno.
Last edited by ArchStanton; Feb 13, 2017 at 03:33 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,842
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From: Pasco Florida
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
The large bearing base 350 rods are a lot more durable than the first design 327 rods and even the second design 327 rods that went into production in '66. (Both are small bearing.)
Plain vanilla 350 rods are okay for reuse unless the maximum design speed is over 6000.
Duke
Plain vanilla 350 rods are okay for reuse unless the maximum design speed is over 6000.
Duke
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
Likes: 1,874
From: Greenville, Indiana
Duke - do you have a part number for those large bearing base 350 connecting rods? As luck would have it, I am helping a friend take his 250 hp 327 up to the 300 hp configuration, so we have some license to improve sight unseen things like the cam (this thread valuable there) and we will take the opportunity to address the connecting rods.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,867
Likes: 195
From: Maryland
Duke - do you have a part number for those large bearing base 350 connecting rods? As luck would have it, I am helping a friend take his 250 hp 327 up to the 300 hp configuration, so we have some license to improve sight unseen things like the cam (this thread valuable there) and we will take the opportunity to address the connecting rods.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
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Eagle SIR5700... available in both small and large bearing,... pressed or floating pin... about 570 grams (very close to OE)... about $250 per set... okay to 7000-plus on a 327.
Email me if you want the "Special 300 HP" tech support paper.
Duke
Email me if you want the "Special 300 HP" tech support paper.
Duke
Racer
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 254
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From: iroquois ontario
Cam to use
Hi all,
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
I have a 1964 327 engine,10.5/1 compression, 300 BHP originallly and manual 4-speed . I am going to recondition the engine and being European and not used to the USA cam figures was wondering what sort of cam was mounted originally and what best cam to use now for normal,maybe a bit spirited driving?
Thks for answering,
Dirk/Antwerp
274 int duration 280 exh duration exh 510 lift int 501 lift
lobe separation 110. This is a solid lifter cam.
Lobe separation at 110 will allow compression of 10.5 to 1 not to denonate. Also 650 Holley double pumper is a good choice.
Fredski
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Hi all,
Thanks again for all the advice given. Got me a new set of H-beam rods ,thinking about Sealed power H660 Hypereutectic pistons.
Engine has an Edelbrock torker manifold.In view with the car not going to be driven when cold,do I plug the carb heater orifices in the alu manifold?Seems the engine gets lots of heated air from under the bonnet.Some years now since I have seen decent snow here in Belgium.
I have not decided yet on cams,want to follow advice from the senior members,but as I notice the H660 flat pistons give only 9.5 C/R. Do I have to take dome ones?
I read that it makes the combustian chamber less favourable .
Dirk/Antwerp
Thanks again for all the advice given. Got me a new set of H-beam rods ,thinking about Sealed power H660 Hypereutectic pistons.
Engine has an Edelbrock torker manifold.In view with the car not going to be driven when cold,do I plug the carb heater orifices in the alu manifold?Seems the engine gets lots of heated air from under the bonnet.Some years now since I have seen decent snow here in Belgium.
I have not decided yet on cams,want to follow advice from the senior members,but as I notice the H660 flat pistons give only 9.5 C/R. Do I have to take dome ones?
I read that it makes the combustian chamber less favourable .
Dirk/Antwerp
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
Likes: 2,270
The H660 is okay. Also google keith Black pistons and look at the KB156 and KB157. The actual CR depends highly on head gasket thickness and piston vendor often don't say what head gasket thickness is used to determine the specified CR. Search threads started by me and download and read the CR paper.
Once you have selected a cam, the maximum CR can be established base on IVC point, and then you use the data you measure and piston dome specs with various head gasket thickness to get the CR in the proper range without exceeding the maximum
H-beam rods doesn't mean much unless you state the manufacturer and part number. There are many out there. How much did they cost?
A single plane manifold is not a good choice for road a road engine. They sacrifice low end torque for some top end power, but how much time will you spend over 5000 revs?
Any OE big port manifold or aftermarket 180 degree manifold that will provide adequate hood clearance is fine.
Duke
Once you have selected a cam, the maximum CR can be established base on IVC point, and then you use the data you measure and piston dome specs with various head gasket thickness to get the CR in the proper range without exceeding the maximum
H-beam rods doesn't mean much unless you state the manufacturer and part number. There are many out there. How much did they cost?
A single plane manifold is not a good choice for road a road engine. They sacrifice low end torque for some top end power, but how much time will you spend over 5000 revs?
Any OE big port manifold or aftermarket 180 degree manifold that will provide adequate hood clearance is fine.
Duke
Last edited by SWCDuke; Apr 11, 2017 at 01:16 PM.