Matching #'s
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,528
Likes: 444
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 33,073
Likes: 6,634
From: Rochester NY
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '26
There is no book that I know of that gives an "official" ruling. But the whole idea is self-explanatory. Some parts, on some years, are coded with a derivative of the VIN, thus proving that they are the original part that came with the car. A car with all the "born with" parts is worth more to some people than a car with parts which have been replaced.
You may see cars advertised as "NOM" - meaning Not Original Motor. That car would not be considered "numbers matching". Likewise the OP's car is a "NOT" to invent a term - "Not Original Transmission". Since the tranny number would NOT match the VIN, the car would not be properly considered Numbers Matching. I suppose we need a new category - "SNMOD" - Some Numbers Match, Others Don't.
Hope this help explain it. Personally I think the whole concept has gotten way out of hand with people spending cubic dollars on cars claiming to be matching, with people going to great lengths to fake number stamps, and with people advertising 1957's or whatever year as "numbers matching" when back then they didn't even put VIN number derivatives on the components.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 204
From: Ontario
As phil2302 says the circular machine marks on the pad surface are typical of a block that has been decked some time after original manufacture.
Although making a definitive conclusion from a photo is hazardous at best your stamp does is encouraging. I would suggest you clean the pad as best you can. DO NOT USE ANYTHING ABRASIVE. You do not want to create any abrasive marks at all. Start with some lacquer thinner on a rag. If stains from corrosion remain apply some Naval Jelly. Let it sit from as long as you can. Then wipe clean. When you have a clean, clear as possible as you can get pad surface take another picture. Try to get the camera as square to the pad as you can get. Post the photo.
Following a satisfactory photo shoot apply a film of oil to the pad surface to protect the pad surface.
If you are lucky maybe a second second suffix character will be perceptible.
Good Luck.
Although making a definitive conclusion from a photo is hazardous at best your stamp does is encouraging. I would suggest you clean the pad as best you can. DO NOT USE ANYTHING ABRASIVE. You do not want to create any abrasive marks at all. Start with some lacquer thinner on a rag. If stains from corrosion remain apply some Naval Jelly. Let it sit from as long as you can. Then wipe clean. When you have a clean, clear as possible as you can get pad surface take another picture. Try to get the camera as square to the pad as you can get. Post the photo.
Following a satisfactory photo shoot apply a film of oil to the pad surface to protect the pad surface.
If you are lucky maybe a second second suffix character will be perceptible.
Good Luck.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 204
From: Ontario
I believe what Railroadman has said is simply common sense and accepted by convention.
"Matching numbers" is not not limited by the tunnel vision view that those numbers are limited to that set found on the engine block stamp pad.
Last edited by Rumblegutz; Mar 16, 2017 at 07:43 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 204
From: Ontario
To answer your question, it appears that the original poster says it is not when he states he is aware the trans has been REPLACED.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 33,073
Likes: 6,634
From: Rochester NY
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '26
In more and more cases, it now means only that someone has stamped a number on the components, which matches the VIN. The object, to some, is that the numbers themself are the same, with no regard (or with deliberate disregard) for whether the component is indeed the one car car was made with.
Let me add that from what I can see, the OP in this post is very open and forthcoming that the trans is not original to the car, and I am not in any way saying he trying to be dishonest or misleading. I am talking about all the other cars we see out there with varying degrees of credibility for their claims of "numbers matching".
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Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Boy, opened a can of worms there, didn't I? My apologies. While I state that the transmission was replaced at one time...that, in fact is "family lore" passed down from the two uncles that owned the car. I could question the one Uncle who is still, fortunately, with us. But I would guess his memory is foggy, at best....but I will definitely inquire the next time I see him. However I do agree with Railroadman, and always have been under the opinion, that the car is a "non #'s matching" car, for that reason.......and is not "original". Not a concern at all too me as the car is more of a family heirloom and something that I am incredibly proud of, due to the care my father gave it and all the hard work we have put into it over the years. I will never, ever sell it and will simply pass it down one day, as my father did, for the rest of the family to enjoy. My only intention was to verify something that I had wondered about for many years, and that was whether the engine block was original. And it seems, that in a matter of hours, we have managed to atleast mostly confirm that.....and I thank you guys for all of your assistance. That's what this forum is about after all....right?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 33,073
Likes: 6,634
From: Rochester NY
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '26
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 33,073
Likes: 6,634
From: Rochester NY
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '26
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Now that's what I'm talking about.....
Thank you, Gentlemen....I will continue to "lurk" quietly and not cause anymore problems. I WILL try and get a clear shot of that block stamp and post when I have a chance. Thank you again.
Thank you, Gentlemen....I will continue to "lurk" quietly and not cause anymore problems. I WILL try and get a clear shot of that block stamp and post when I have a chance. Thank you again.