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My wife finally laid down the law. If I wanted to take my five-year-old out in the Corvette, I needed to install a roll bar and harnesses with shoulder straps. Oh joy.
This has been a journey, so I thought I do a quick post.
If you search “Corvette roll bar” in google images, and filter down to midyears, it’s a sad state. There are roll bars out there for these cars, but they have problems. My personal opinion is they destroy the midyear lines, and most require channels cut in the soft-top fiberglass cover, which really changes the site lines.
The next bit of information I discovered was that most of the roll bars I found for midyears were… for looks only (???). Bolting a plate under the fiberglass tub to mount the roll bar (or shoulder harnesses) is gonna have limited value when you need it. I wanted something that would work as intended. This meant welding to the frame. I also needed the roll bar to be removable as I plan to pull the body off the car in the next 12-18 months. It was this last bit that convinced me to drop the car off at Performance Fabrication in San Carlos, CA, and have them build something that looks good, AND is functional.
After about a week, I got a call to go through options. Originally, I told Performance I wanted to keep the soft-top. To their credit, they figured out a way to do that, but there was a catch – the rear triangle of the roll bar could only extend 4 inches back instead of the customary 12. Ugh. According to my MIT mechanical engineer friend, the amount of resistance in a z-axis impact is ~linearly relational to the distance of the rear triangle leg connection point (the x and y axis strength doesn’t change). ****. Bye-bye soft-top. But, we could still fit the roll bar under the hard-top.
Low and behold! Performance did not disappoint. They cut the tub, welded a plate to the frame, custom bent all the tubing to form the bar, made it removable, and put holes in the rear top cover as opposed to butchering it. They also figured out that although the roll bar would work well in a roll-over, it would also be the first item to enter my skull in a hard-enough impact. Given this, they welded in a couple of headrests with foam cushions. They also welded in stops for the seat-backs, and the hardware necessary for SFI rated 4-point harnesses.
Woo-hoo!
I chose to go with a black powder-coat crinkle finish, which I’m totally happy with. The flat back does a good job of not pulling too much from the stock lines of the car. I also opted for something a little unorthodox… yellow harnesses! I thought about black, but suspected the yellow would look good with Glen-Green paint.
I will say none of this was cheap. Yes, you can buy a ~$700 roll bar on the web. We’ll just say, this was substantially more. That said, I trust the work and it looks great. I’d do this again in a heartbeat.
1st: Can't tell from pictures if the belts are 4 pt or 5 pt. 99.9% 4 Pt seat belts are not street leagal. Two reasons, 1st they are designed to hold your upper torso straight up, 99.9% of them do not allow upper torso to have enough movement to allow your upper torso to move forward enough to allow wast belt to trap your waist around midsection belt, thus allowing your body to submarine under lap belt with horrific body damage.
2nd: Your seats are not designed for 4 pt or more seat belts, as they do not have opening in seat back to prevent the belts from sliding down the side of seat in an impact thus not holding you upright. Bright side is that might prevent your body from submarineing as upper body can now move forward allowing upper and lower body to forma "V" around the lap belt.
3rd: Per Federal Law, all seat belts except those that came in car originally, Release mechanism must have a RED BUTTON with words Press to Release to unbuckle them, so rescue personal know quickly how to remove you from car. Bright side is most Law Enforcement personal do not even know they are suppose to ticket you for this if they stop you for some reason...LOL
Your call, but but both you an your child are more in danger in a crash seat belt wise than just using original belts.
Note: By the way, now you know why 3 PT seat belts in cars, strap that goes across your chest have a mechanism that allows your upper torso to move forward just enough to keep you from submarineing under a 3pt's Lap Belt.
Last edited by Poorhousenext; 03-27-2017 at 05:17 PM.
In addition to what PHN said, the shoulder straps must be anchored or supported above your shoulder, or your spine will get compressed/mangled as an accident. thrown over the back of the seat isn't being supported.
Unsolicited , and maybe unappreciated comments:
You must either drive like f'n maniac to have your wife insist on a rollbar, or she spent so much time in a nanny state like CA where everybody must be wrapped up in a bubble to protect them from everything, that mindset rubbed off on her.
I may take the contrarian view here, but that said:
1 - these glorious cars have effectively none of the safety features of today's cars that allow you to not pay attention while driving and still survive, even if Darwin should have taken you out.
2 - Too many idiot, self-absorbed, thoughtless, distracted, road raging, jealous, incompetent, untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured drivers out there that, unfortunately, driving a collectable is more dangerous.
3 - I love my car, but I love my family more. I can do without the car if it were to be destroyed in a collision. I would be devastated if my family were to be destroyed in a collision. Not even close to a comparison on level of importance.
4 - You guys hear this from me consistently: WTF do you care what somebody else does to their car? Did you pay for it, and are you going to buy it? Or is it a thinly veiled humble brag, chest thumping, know it all opportunity?
In addition to what PHN said, the shoulder straps must be anchored or supported above your shoulder, or your spine will get compressed/mangled as an accident. thrown over the back of the seat isn't being supported.
Unsolicited , and maybe unappreciated comments:
You must either drive like f'n maniac to have your wife insist on a rollbar, or she spent so much time in a nanny state like CA where everybody must be wrapped up in a bubble to protect them from everything, that mindset rubbed off on her.
Doug
Thanks for the comments, but I respectfully disagree.
First, the belts are 5 point. I was not a fan, but did read the submarining literature. They are a pain in the *** when getting in the car (especially with a 5yo), but I’m good.
Second, you cannot see it in the picture, but the shoulder straps are connected to a bar exactly at seat height behind the seat. My 5yo is not quite as wide in the shoulders as I am, so as you can see from the pics, I cross his from behind. This prevents him from pushing through the belts. The picture with my son in the car has the best vantage for seeing the height of the belt connection point.
No. These do not have a red button. I can fix that. Thanks for bringing that up.
The argument for changing out the belts is simple – in a hard enough crash, your face and head will go through the steering wheel. Glad you’re happy with your lap-belts. More power to you.
As far as my wife and I living in a nanny state… Well, I do drive a little hard. I have 500hp and 500 ft-lbs of torque under the hood in a Dart 406 racing block. Things happen a little faster than with my tired old 327.
Your insinuation that I’m some how weak because I love my son and want to mitigate risk where I can to protect him, especially in a 52 year old vehicle with ~5% of the safety features of a new car and a power-to-weight ratio greater than my 911… All I have to say is, Wooooow. It must have been really hard for you to make a disparaging comment about someone else’s parenting style over the Internet. How very brave and non-risk averse of you. I’m happy to talk Corvettes anytime on this forum, but where my family is concerned, mind your own business; or at least have the courtesy (and courage) to say things like that in person… where we can talk about appropriateness over a beer.
Mike.
Last edited by Gonzo_65_L76; 03-27-2017 at 08:14 PM.
Great to see you found some solutions to a tough problem. These cars don't accept these changes easily.
What sort of pin/bolt is that holding the down bars to the hoop? I assume there's one at each end so you can slide the down bars out and lift the decklid? Any pics of the way it's mounted under the deck?
Looks well made and should help if your unfortunate enough to ever need its safety value.
Have you noticed any improvement in chassis stiffness/handling? Probably not possible now but adding a diagonal bar from top of hoop to bottom will substantially increase the torsional strength of the bar and chassis.
Great to see you found some solutions to a tough problem. These cars don't accept these changes easily.
What sort of pin/bolt is that holding the down bars to the hoop? I assume there's one at each end so you can slide the down bars out and lift the decklid? Any pics of the way it's mounted under the deck?
JIM
You are correct. This was a large undertaking. These cars are very purpose built. You don't realize just how small these cars are, and by extension how hard they are to make things fit that weren't originally a part of the car, until you undertake an exercise like this. Of all the projects so far to hot-rod this car out, I was very happy to hand this one off to someone else.
I'll get some pics over the next couple days. I've been told by Performance to expect ~3 hours of work to remove the roll bar... but it is removable.
I've got one in mine...but we installed the downbars so the top would still function. Just had to have a new one made to clear the hardtop I installed for the TX Mile. The old one was just barely too high for the hardtop. Mine is removable also.
The belts are a serious problem. We won't tell your wife though.
You absolutely need the crotch belt. And, it needs to be installed properly.
Running the submarine belt over the front edge of the seat will not be safe. You're going to have to cut a hole in the seat cushion. The mounting bolt needs to go under the seat, and straight down.
If you have no submarine belt, or an improperly installed belt, you son will end up in the footwell should you have an accident.
The irony here is that you may have inadvertently made the car less safe for your son.
I LIKE the bar , looks good. Hope you never need it though. I am currently putting a bar in my 70 and you are right it's a LOT of work. I kinda wish now I would have just paid to have it done.
Sure seems like a monumental effort, undertaking, and modifications so your 5 yr old can ride in the car.
Does he actually spend that much time in it?
Does the wife also require that he wear a helmet when riding in it?
Does she make you wear a helmet when you're out in it?
Not commenting on parenting styles or keeping marrital harmony. You made this discussion all about family. The whole exercise seems so far outside the norm of what people do with these cars for street use that other questions come to mind.
They did a nice job although it's not my cup of tea for a street car. I would just make sure that the head pads do keep your head from colliding with the bar in case of being rear ended. It's far more likely to be rear ended on the street than suffer a roll over and a head snapping back against a steel bar will do a serious number if not fatal injury to your cranium. Just my 2-1/2 cents (inflation)
The belts are a serious problem. We won't tell your wife though.
You absolutely need the crotch belt. And, it needs to be installed properly.
Running the submarine belt over the front edge of the seat will not be safe. You're going to have to cut a hole in the seat cushion. The mounting bolt needs to go under the seat, and straight down.
I like the idea of running the submariner belt through the seat cushion. I'm not thrilled with the over-the-seat and under. I could see ending a crash seated on the floor. I doubt you'd get completely out of the belt, but you'd lose the benefit of the seat cushion.
Ironically, I should have known this. This is the way my harnesses work when I fly aerobatics. Rapidly alternating from positive to negative G's in all three dimensions requires this setup.
I drop my son off at pre-school in the Corvette on many non-rain days. We also make 'spirited' runs on mountain roads off Skyline together. He's with me about 50% of the time in the Corvette. My car is not a trailer-queen, and I'm raising my son to know the difference. He'll probably be one of the <5% of his peers who will know how to drive a stick (let alone drive a car) when he turns 16. I'm very happy to encourage his interest in cars. It’s a cool thing we share together (he was calling out Corvettes on the road at three years old). A roll bar and harnesses are a small price to pay for that kind of father-son bonding. It appears a few folks don't understand that.
I find this thread extremely funny. A roll bar thread turns into a debate on parenting style. Depending on where I'm sitting at any given moment, I get unwanted parenting advice from both sides (risk-tolerant / risk-averse); with the most amusing coming from idiots hiding behind the skirt of the Internet.
My son flies with me in a specially rigged up booster seat that allows him to actually fly the plane. He can't see over the instrument panel without it. We've been doing that since he was 4. We are both counting the days until he's 8 when I can finally fit him in a parachute and start flying inverted acro. We go Jeep rock-crawling in Sedona and Moab. We jump dune-buggies in Pismo. No - he is not coddled in a bubble. Making comments to the contrary without knowledge is pretty dang stupid.
Mark Twain comes to mind - "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
Respectfully, I place very little value on parenting advice from the Internet; and especially parenting advice from a Corvette forum.
I will raise my son the way I see fit. I will mitigate risk using my judgment; and without the Internet's inappropriate, unsolicited and unwanted help.
Can we get back to roll bars and harnesses? Something I do value this forums advice on...
Last edited by Gonzo_65_L76; 03-28-2017 at 02:12 PM.
Looks well made and should help if your unfortunate enough to ever need its safety value.
Have you noticed any improvement in chassis stiffness/handling? Probably not possible now but adding a diagonal bar from top of hoop to bottom will substantially increase the torsional strength of the bar and chassis.
I'll show pics later today. I have extra brace under the fiberglass cover. I chose not to have a diagonal bar after talking to my mechanical engineer friend. The incremental value in a crash wasn't that high (this is not a track car), and I would've needed to cut a lot more visible fiberglass.
I probably get a little more chassis stiffness, but with >500 ft-lbs, I still get plenty of twist. I'd need a full cage to make any real difference. I'm still needing to tighten all the exhaust bolt after each ~hour of hard driving. I get a lot of twist.
03-27-2017, 02:40 PM
My new roll bar
Keep momma happy. 
