Bluestripe67

Did someone say they now include "driver cars"? I better get ready. Dennis

65tripleblack

Yes, it states that alright..........but people don't buy it. Like it or not, NCRS awards add value to a car despite the fact that they state that it is not the purpose of an award. By the same token, NCRS is broadcast as a "hobby" buy the big boys and "players" are in it for the money. Plus, they get free labor under the pretense of "hobby". So, it's a business driven by $$$, withfree labor provided by those who believe it to be a hobby.

The judging is very inconsistent, and the odds of things being overlooked or mistakenly judged to be "korrecktttt" are much higher in a chapter meet. I recall that you were the victim of poor and, incidentally, in-korreckttttt judging with one of yer cars.

I'd rather buy a well restored car, or a solid original than a dummied up one that will pass NCRS judging (looks good on the surface) but has deep hidden flaws that will bite the owner in the a$$ later on. You haven't been in this hobby as long as I have, and neither are you a NCRS judge................let alone a red hat like I am. I've seen that happen time and time again over many years. I've walked out during judging at chapter meets when I saw let's say..........non-typical situations crop up for the benefit of a crony car flipper.

Frankie the Fink

Uh. I have judged cars at NCRS events and been in the hobby for 40 years (including non-Corvettes) and sold these "classics" in the 60s when they were just cars. So enough of that. If you are justifying your derisive comments based on how long you've been in the hobby it's a specious argument and doesn't fly.

I think we all "get" where you're coming from.

65tripleblack

Re-read my edited post and correct your quote of me. There is some pertinent information added.

You seem to feel that you're the only one who has been crawling around cars since the sixties. I started learning at age 8 in 1959. My father was a "flipper" just like your father, and I was into Fords and Mercs long before I was into Corvettes.

SW Vette

Precisely. No such thing as dummying up a junk car for a TF. With any failure resulting in 25 points deduction each, non operational items (clock, cigarette lighter, windshield washers, instrument lights, rear blower fan in a coupe, etc.) will knock a car down pretty quickly. Incorrect paint, tags, and/or engine case will finish it off.

There is no money in taking a deeply flawed car and attempting to bring it to the level of being judged Top Flight. The only people making money in that scenario are the parts sellers, and shops who do restorations.

65hihp

Joe-
This has all been fully hashed out, but the fact remains, contrary opinions not withstanding, that the fink;s little red coupe was judged korrecktttt-LY at FLA.
The other car nearby him in the hanger was judged IN-korreckttt-LY. And, obviously YES, there is inconsistency within the judging program because it is conducted by humans and not computers. The korreckttt judging process applied to the little red coupe conforms to current Standard Deduction Guideline application as it is taught today in National level judging schools and the Dallas Judges Retreat.

roberts427

a lot of people love to learn more about their cars, each judging score sheet hopefully has the correct info that states why they had a deduct. car owners like to make refinements and then have them judged again to see the fruits of their labor.

65tripleblack

Don :

From what I see on public forums I disagree. Please provide evidence to support your assertion

Joe C

Mike Terry

Because we are all human trust me not all judges do judge cars the same. I would just about bet you anything you wanted to bet that I could get 3 or 4 judges and have all of them judge the same car and no 2 judges would come up with the same score or deductions. Also if the judging manual changes who is to say which manual is correct? This is why I am not a big fan of NCRS. I do like to see original cars or original looking car, but who is to say they are really correct when the judging manual changes and who is to say the changes in the judging manuals is correct? Can you really trust the person who makes the changes in the manual??? If he changes it then all the cars judges before the new one came out (may be wrong or judged wrong) who is to say??? Who really knows what is correct and what is not????

Chuck Gongloff

There is no "person" who makes changes. Each manual has a committee. Changes submitted to the manual are run through the committee.

There is no "he".... there is a "they".

And not all suggested changes, additions, deletions, or supposed corrections are incorporated into a new manual if they don't pass muster.

62corvette

Many years ago 99% of the population was unhappy, because the new books said that the earth was round. Christopher Columbus was not to be trusted! Who wants newer and better information in new manuals?
I don't trust people who sell globes. I think they invented them for their own financial gain!

jrs 427

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain . The great and powerful Oz has spoken. Praise the manual as we follow destiny. It is written by intelligent researcher specialists all knowing.

Bill Pilon

I agree with Mike, these cars have been around 50 years or more, someone should know how in the hell they were put together, we have assembly manuals, service manuals etc, I see reprints of these but not different editions.

With all the different editions of the judging guides it seems to me the requirements to obtain a certain award is a moving target.

As an outsider looking in I see a small core (committee) of interested folks holding the tail and waging the dog instead of the dog waging the tail, and I do not believe for one minute that some of these "committee" members don't have a financial interest in the Corvette hobby in one way or another. I wonder who picks the "committee" members.

Bill

phil2302

I exited NCRS years ago. Found I didnt need it as I had no desire for judging and had other reliable corvette centric info sources.
Most young people I know through my son that are into cars really have no idea what NCRS is.
The few that do not relate to an organization that has slowly taken on the traits of a bloated government agency.
I dont think it exists in 25 years.
Its like the DAV, VFW American Legion etc No young blood because they are turned off by the poltics, cronyism and favoritism.

Frankie the Fink

Look, the NCRS is a, non-profit "social club" (per IRS definition)...centered on the classic Corvette hobby. It has published objective standards (be they flawed in some cases) that are interpreted by human beings. Stringency varies from chapter to regional/national depending on the judges' abilities/knowledge of the standards.

Nobody has to join and if some owner/buyer ascribes a premium to a car's value based on the NCRS process its not on the club. Its that simple.

Don't like it, don't play or get involved and promote change. Any member can enter their car an infinite number of times to be judged - just pay the fee. Yes, scores might vary somewhat (e.g. human factor mentioned above).
Nothing complicated here.

gilbybarr

Agreed.

jrs 427

NCRS is probably a nice " old guys club ". They dream, eat, sleep, and wonder of the past. Very few new generation Corvette owners may join for the literature. Participation is like any other club. When the older members retire bumper stickers and a magazine will be the remainder. How many times can one hash over the quality of a six decade old car ? Were not looking for the dated glass, carburetor, or engine numbers in many cases. The classic body design is the key to an updated transport some call a restomod. The glut of used and NOS parts on the market has savvy owners looking to " cash in " on the remaining believers. FI units, tri carburetor setups will be the staples remaining in the street / hot rod builders. The restamp shops are feeling the decline as a once original must have accessorie.
The " club " is desperately looking for new ways to attract members parting from the stern " our version of factory " to lets be a brother hood to all owners. Prestige loss is closing in.
My two cents of course. The future will dictate survival.

65hihp

Wonderful No Cal chapter meet going on this weekend outside of Sacto area with friendly enthusiasts of all ages socializing at judging school and dinner last night, and now prepping for flight judging. Great cars and great people. Stop on by if you're in the area. You might be surprised what the club is really like where the rubber meets the road.

Mike Terry

Thank You Bill. I knew that I would catch hell from the NCRS guys but that is OK. You can not make me believe that any 2 NCRS judges will judge the same car and come up with the same deductions. They are human and they will make mistakes and not see the same things that the other person see. I just wonder why the NCRS members are on the Forum but unless you are a NCRS member you can not get on the NCRS site? But that is ok for it to one one sided. Now I know I will catch hell for this post also.

65tripleblack

Let's start with 2 very basic examples:

When a luggage rack or passenger side mirror are added to a car and they "nicht gehören" then the items themselves are not counted. They are in effect, invisible. The damage done to the car in installing these accessories are deducted, i.e: holes in the bodywork..............................we on the same page so far?

This is Korreckttt......ja oder nein.