DansYellow66

I finished successfully rebuilding a 727 auto transmission in my GTX and now I'm feeling pretty good and thinking about taking on my 66 Vette's Muncie and rebuilding it. Should be fairly easy after the 727.

My WR transmission is working pretty well and was rebuilt about 20 years ago but it has always bugged me that it's not really correct for a solid lifter motor running 4.11 gears. It's also not original to the car. Most of my drives are in the 30 to 50 mph neighborhoods and although I like the easy first gear launch, the gap between 3rd and 4th has always bugged me too. And then it has the typical leaky cluster shaft leak, a couple case ears were cracked and have been re-welded. and the usual couple of helicoil repairs.

So - I was looking at D&L's website and I can get a new CR gear set for about $450 but wow, the M22 gear set is only about $225 more so why not. I could get my case sleeved for the cluster shaft but a new Autogear case is only $259 and I don't have to look for someone to repair it and probably ship it across country. Heck, if I'm going for a new case might as well get a new Autogear tail housing. And while I'm at it a new roller shaft side plate and a steel mid-plate. Throw in a rebuild set for all the gaskets and small parts, rob a few parts off of my current M20 and voila - I have a $1600 to 1800 M-22 transmission and a partially stripped M20 useful only for a few spare parts.

But - D&L advertises a complete Autogear cased M22 CR for about the same price of $1800 and I would have my complete M20 left that I could hang on to for garage art or re-sell as-is for $300 -350 I think.

I sort of want the re-build project just for the fun of it and experience. But cost wise I think I would be better off just buying the complete Autogear M22 from D&L.

I hate to trade off the obvious economics for the fun of building a transmission up and then end up with a gutted M-20 taking up residence in my attic.

Anyone bought one of the new M22 Autogear cased Muncies from D&L?

Scott Marzahl

I have not bought one of those from Larry, just parts and he is a stand up guy to deal with. A Muncie is very straightforward to rebuild but I would just opt for the complete Auto gear piece from Larry or Paul at 5speeds.

Powershift

Dan:

You know the M22 will be a bit vocal (loud) right?? The cut of the gears makes it a bit louder than other 4-speeds. But if you have side pipes on your car, you won't hear it whine anyway.

Larry

DansYellow66

Between my motor/sidepipes and a general old age decline in my hearing anyway - not sure I'm going to notice it a lot.

DansYellow66

Thanks - one vote for buying complete unit. Kind of hate to bail on a do-it-myself project though.

6T5RUSH

Perhaps Donny Brass will chime in on your dilemna. Believe he just purchased an Autogear 4 speed.

Click here, post #125: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...2-today-7.html



Jim
In God We Trust!

Easy Rhino

Now that's funny.

Between side pipes and a rock-crusher M22 (they do make a racket), I'm not sure that even my shot hearing would find it relaxing.

YMMV.

Nowhere Man

Aww yes but what oil you going to run in it.

Seriously why not a overdrive trans

DansYellow66

I'm just an around town and local county roads guy. Little Rock is a major through point for truck traffic on the Interstates and I avoid them even in my daily drivers as they are just a death trap. An overdrive would be kind of lost on me. My daily driver is a 6 speed Mustang GT and I don't get it into 6th much. I think before I would consider an overdrive, I would probably first consider a change to a 3.70 or 3.90 rear.

What oil - yes, that's funny Keith. I've managed to stay out of that one so far. Don't ask and don't tell. Ha Ha.

R66

OD for 50 mph?? What a waste, unless you are trying to get 40 mpg in which case, buy a Pruis.

Ran a DNE 5 spd based on the M22 gear set. Yes, kinda noisy by some standards, but rock and roll music to the gear head with or without side pipes or open headers.

Of course, some gentlemen are more into Classical Music and Bing Crosby than the beautiful performance symphony of the gear set. Pick your poison.

As for the satisfaction of building a M22 from scratch vs a professionally built AG unit for the same bucks - you don't get a warrantee with the home built but you don't get the opportunity to screw up and do it again to learn more. The self esteem and satisfaction of DIY are worth some $$$ in the trade off, but both evaporate if you have to do it again.

All of the 1/2 dozen or more Muncies as well as a couple of Borg-Warners I have rebuilt were due to lack of the green bucks to get them professionally done. Had to gamble on some questionable parts. For the same money, I'd be hard pressed to not let the pros do it.

NightshiftHD

Dan, I had an Autogear Super cased M22 in mine but I've shelved it for now to try my new Tremec TKO 600 5-speed once the car is back on the road. My M22 came from David's 4-speeds in Milwaukee. Like others have mentioned, the gear whine is noticeable, even with side exhaust, but it works great. Bill

DansYellow66

Sounds like the turnkey approach is prevailing over the do-it-myself approach.

I noticed D&Ls website hasn't been updated in years so their prices posted in it are probably way outdated and I'll have to see what they currently are.

Thanks for the replies.

69ttop502

Larry is just a great guy to deal with. I am about 10 minutes from his shop here on the Island. Can't go wrong with Larry building your transmission.

Bill

DansYellow66

Do you have an email address for them by chance? The contact link on their website sends me to Outlook which I don't have. I would like to get a complete, current price list from them.

SupremeDeluxe

Dan,

I went through this dilemma three summers ago. I was trying to save my original M21 case, as it had no cracks or thread issues and I figured it would be a straightforward project for one of the leading rebuilders (not Larry). Ultimately, I had to remove and reinstall it twice before we had it right. I have only heard and read good things about Larry, so he should be a great source regardless of what you do.

The guy who did mine stood behind it and made it right, but it would have been far better if he just did it right in the first place. I came to find out one of the R&R's was due to cheap blocking rings (the forged AutoGear units he promised were temporarily unavailable, so I got offshore junk). The second was due to an issue of combined old parts and new.

I talked to George and Nate at AutoGear along the way (what a class opereration!), and George takes an engineering/analytical approach to troubleshooting. I was going to disassemble the trans again and CMM the case, as he suspected there was some machining inaccuracy in the original housing. While I have access to a CMM and the engineer in my wanted to do it, I decided to put a few hundred miles on it and see how it went. (Splitting the atom on something like this seemed excessive) If that failed, I was going to buy a brand new AutoGear trans with no used parts in it.

It's still alive and running way better, the only intermittent issue I have is difficulty getting it into first when stopped, but even that is improving.

In the end, the direct path is a brand new trans built by AutoGear or another qualified builder. It's unlikely I will ever attempt to restore one again,but If I do, I will do it myself.

Scott Marzahl

I dont think Larry does email, just call him.

Scott Marzahl

I dont believe Larry does email, just call him. ​​​​​

SJW

Here's a radical thought: Do both. Rebuild the M20 for the experience and satisfaction, then sell it for more than it's worth in its present condition. It doesn't sound as though it needs much to freshen it up. Buy the new gearbox to install in your car, and benefit from the warranty if there's any trouble.

Live well,

SJW

DansYellow66

You may have an idea there. I don't think it needs much but repair of the countershaft bore and maybe a set of shift forks - from memory the ones in it are not too fresh.

DansYellow66

Well you're right - Larry isn't a computer person but he's real helpful. After talking with him a few minutes I'm back thinking about rebuilding my existing transmission.

He suggested changing out the case only and put all new guts in it (I think he said reuse the main shaft) which he said would probably run me somewhere in the vicinity of $1000 for parts with an M22 gear set. He suggested skipping the AutoGear tail housing as it's bulkier than the Muncie and I might have problems getting my Hurst shifter to clear in the tunnel - and also the Muncie tail housing seldom was an issue. He also said re-use the side plate as he thought the new ones had some issues with the cam mechanism. He suggested re-use the mid-plate, the steel ones are hard to get now and really didn't do anything for strength.

A complete AutoGear M22 is now $1,950 so compared to $1000 - $1100 for parts for a rebuild, this is suddenly more cost effective. And he said if I could put an Torqueflite together I wouldn't have any trouble with a Muncie.

But he mentioned several options on gear ratios including a WR set with a closer 3rd and 4th gear - which would take care of one of my complaints. So, I need to think about that some more.