Surface Rust - Need Advice
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
Surface Rust - Need Advice
Going to see and perhaps purchase a '66. Pictures show, what appears to be quite a bit of surface rust on the frame. The consignment dealer confirms that it is surface only and suggests removing the surface rust and painting it to protect the frame.
A very respectable Corvette shop that worked on the car for the owner confirmed that it is only surface rust. Neither the consignment dealer or Corvette shop believe that a frame-off repair was necessary, as again, it is only surface rust.
I need advice from the Forum. Assuming it is surface rust, what is the best way to treat it so that it does not become something more problematic?
In terms of removing the surface rust and painting, what should I expect to pay for this service? The consignment dealer has offered to do it for $1500. Is this a fair price?
If it is surface rust, is a frame-off treatment cost effective to treat it? At this time, I am not planning to do anything else to the car. The thought is that taking the frame off would give better access to more thoroughly treat the frame. Ballpark, what would it cost to take the frame off and treat the frame and again, would it be cost effective?
Many thanks...
A very respectable Corvette shop that worked on the car for the owner confirmed that it is only surface rust. Neither the consignment dealer or Corvette shop believe that a frame-off repair was necessary, as again, it is only surface rust.
I need advice from the Forum. Assuming it is surface rust, what is the best way to treat it so that it does not become something more problematic?
In terms of removing the surface rust and painting, what should I expect to pay for this service? The consignment dealer has offered to do it for $1500. Is this a fair price?
If it is surface rust, is a frame-off treatment cost effective to treat it? At this time, I am not planning to do anything else to the car. The thought is that taking the frame off would give better access to more thoroughly treat the frame. Ballpark, what would it cost to take the frame off and treat the frame and again, would it be cost effective?
Many thanks...
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 54,188
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From: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
2024 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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Leave it alone and don't drive it in foul weather like a snow storm with salt on the road. 1500 bucks is a bit much
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,750
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From: Central Arkansas
Surface rust by my definition means a tight, oxidized, but not powdery or flakey surface. I would just take a close look at the surface of the frame, particularly in front of the rear wheels and in the kick up area, and make sure that is really surface rust. I would also reach under and into the various access holes on the bottom of the frame and verify the interior of the frame isn't full of rust flakes and debris.
If it truly is just typical light surface oxidation, I agree with Nowhere Man, don't bother it and keep it off wet roads.
Cleaning and painting a chassis still under the car is a labor intensive and thankless job I wouldn't want to pay someone else to do. It falls more in that owner's labor of love category.
If it truly is just typical light surface oxidation, I agree with Nowhere Man, don't bother it and keep it off wet roads.
Cleaning and painting a chassis still under the car is a labor intensive and thankless job I wouldn't want to pay someone else to do. It falls more in that owner's labor of love category.
Last edited by DansYellow66; Sep 15, 2017 at 06:26 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,508
Likes: 2,660
From: Really Central IL Illinois
Rust is not limited to the outside portions of the frame that are visible and accessible. Removing the rust and treating the metal on the outside is only 1/2 of the job. I have used the witches brew that turns rust to a protective coating only to have it fall off in a year or two and expose the rust underneath.
If you are really serious about stopping the rust, the only way I know of is to strip the frame out from under the car, dip it in acid to remove the rust, dip it in a phosphate or galvanic solution or similar protectant, then dip it in primer and then paint to protect it. You are not going to get that done for $1500.
If you are wanting a trailer queen, of course you must have the rust removed or hidden from view to achieve the perfect judging scores.
If you are buying a driver, the frame will probably outlive you without any further action, if it is indeed just surface rust.
If you are really serious about stopping the rust, the only way I know of is to strip the frame out from under the car, dip it in acid to remove the rust, dip it in a phosphate or galvanic solution or similar protectant, then dip it in primer and then paint to protect it. You are not going to get that done for $1500.
If you are wanting a trailer queen, of course you must have the rust removed or hidden from view to achieve the perfect judging scores.
If you are buying a driver, the frame will probably outlive you without any further action, if it is indeed just surface rust.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,882
Likes: 2,178
From: Chicopee MA.
To check for other than surface rust, take a small pointed hammer and strike the frame. It should ring, and not sound like a thud.
At no time should the frame dent with a small hammer, even if used vigorously. If the seller will not allow the hammer test, you don't want it.
I had my air compressor inspected my a state inspector once. He emptied the air out and then took a 5 lb. ball pein hammer and struck the bottom severely! I was concerned that he would damage the tank. He stated that if it dented, it was bad and he would have condemned it.
At no time should the frame dent with a small hammer, even if used vigorously. If the seller will not allow the hammer test, you don't want it.
I had my air compressor inspected my a state inspector once. He emptied the air out and then took a 5 lb. ball pein hammer and struck the bottom severely! I was concerned that he would damage the tank. He stated that if it dented, it was bad and he would have condemned it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
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From: Arlington TX
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 111
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From: Houston Texas
Thank you all for the input. I will do a more detail check of the spots noted.
As a follow-up, my plans are to use the car as a weekend/good weather driver, and for the occasional car show or Corvette get together. I live in Houston, so salt on the roads is rare (can't say the same for water). I am not planning for a garage queen or NCRS judging. In fact, the Corvette shop (NCRS judge) mentioned that if this is what I wanted, that I should start with another car.
@DansYellow66: I like your idea of doing it myself. While I am all for this, I do not know exactly what to do. Is it as simple as getting a wire brush to remove as much surface rust as possible, then painting it? And is there a special paint that should be used?
@R66: Your idea of stripping the frame, etc. is where I was going. You mentioned that it could not be done for $1500. Do you have a ballpark of how much it may cost?
Thanks again everyone...
As a follow-up, my plans are to use the car as a weekend/good weather driver, and for the occasional car show or Corvette get together. I live in Houston, so salt on the roads is rare (can't say the same for water). I am not planning for a garage queen or NCRS judging. In fact, the Corvette shop (NCRS judge) mentioned that if this is what I wanted, that I should start with another car.
@DansYellow66: I like your idea of doing it myself. While I am all for this, I do not know exactly what to do. Is it as simple as getting a wire brush to remove as much surface rust as possible, then painting it? And is there a special paint that should be used?
@R66: Your idea of stripping the frame, etc. is where I was going. You mentioned that it could not be done for $1500. Do you have a ballpark of how much it may cost?
Thanks again everyone...
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
To check for other than surface rust, take a small pointed hammer and strike the frame. It should ring, and not sound like a thud.
At no time should the frame dent with a small hammer, even if used vigorously. If the seller will not allow the hammer test, you don't want it.
I had my air compressor inspected my a state inspector once. He emptied the air out and then took a 5 lb. ball pein hammer and struck the bottom severely! I was concerned that he would damage the tank. He stated that if it dented, it was bad and he would have condemned it.
At no time should the frame dent with a small hammer, even if used vigorously. If the seller will not allow the hammer test, you don't want it.
I had my air compressor inspected my a state inspector once. He emptied the air out and then took a 5 lb. ball pein hammer and struck the bottom severely! I was concerned that he would damage the tank. He stated that if it dented, it was bad and he would have condemned it.
Thank you. Definitely planning to bring the hammer.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,994
Likes: 3,981
From: Cold Harbor, VA
If your interest is in an original type 66 as opposed to a modified car, then do not dismiss the possibility/probability that you will want to get onboard the NCRS train sometime after you have owned your car a while. And buy accordingly, even if your intent now is a fun weekend driver. I can't tell you how many owners/cars we see out at meets who say "I only bought the car to have fun with, but I got caught up in making my car as original looking as I could."
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
If your interest is in an original type 66 as opposed to a modified car, then do not dismiss the possibility/probability that you will want to get onboard the NCRS train sometime after you have owned your car a while. And buy accordingly, even if your intent now is a fun weekend driver. I can't tell you how many owners/cars we see out at meets who say "I only bought the car to have fun with, but I got caught up in making my car as original looking as I could."
Thank you 65hihp. You are reading my mind as I have gone back and forth with getting caught up. This car has an original engine with documentation (original sales agreement, etc.). The issue with this one is that it was modified. Side exhaust and Vintage Air were added; both of which I want (almost must haves for me).
The NCRS judge mentioned that these would have to be removed if I went the NCRS route. I am not knowledgeable enough to know how many points are deducted for leaving them. Can you shed any light on this?
I will keep my options open.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,994
Likes: 3,981
From: Cold Harbor, VA
Absolutely no reason to remove those. I have Regional and National top flights on my 65 with added pipes. The air can take from a few dozen raw points to a lot more than that depending on how it is treated by given judges at any given meet. BUT, not to be concerned. You can overcome changes like yours by driving to the meet, or partly driving to gather driving bonus points. Many do it. If you want to get onboard that train, you can. All are welcome.
should have added that I hate hearing that some 'NCRS judge said' that parts an owner wants must be removed or the car can't play in the flight judging arena. All cars can play if they have a good vin, good Trim tag, and engine with proper markings to fit the car. Not all can be top flight, but all the ribbons are good, and there is no better way to learn about your car than the almost free whole car inspection that a flight judge meet gives.
should have added that I hate hearing that some 'NCRS judge said' that parts an owner wants must be removed or the car can't play in the flight judging arena. All cars can play if they have a good vin, good Trim tag, and engine with proper markings to fit the car. Not all can be top flight, but all the ribbons are good, and there is no better way to learn about your car than the almost free whole car inspection that a flight judge meet gives.
Last edited by 65hihp; Sep 15, 2017 at 10:31 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
Absolutely no reason to remove those. I have Regional and National top flights on my 65 with added pipes. The air can take from a few dozen raw points to a lot more than that depending on how it is treated by given judges at any given meet. BUT, not to be concerned. You can overcome changes like yours by driving to the meet, or partly driving to gather driving bonus points. Many do it. If you want to get onboard that train, you can. All are welcome.
should have added that I hate hearing that some 'NCRS judge said' that parts an owner wants must be removed or the car can't play in the flight judging arena. All cars can play if they have a good vin, good Trim tag, and engine with proper markings to fit the car. Not all can be top flight, but all the ribbons are good, and there is no better way to learn about your car than the almost free whole car inspection that a flight judge meet gives.
should have added that I hate hearing that some 'NCRS judge said' that parts an owner wants must be removed or the car can't play in the flight judging arena. All cars can play if they have a good vin, good Trim tag, and engine with proper markings to fit the car. Not all can be top flight, but all the ribbons are good, and there is no better way to learn about your car than the almost free whole car inspection that a flight judge meet gives.
Thank you. My apologies, but I misquoted the NCRS judge. He was talking about "Top Flight" and not just participating in the judging.
What you have provided is very encouraging and helpful. I'm on my way to dealer (3 hours away). I will report back what I find. Depending on what I find, I may reach out for more input and guidance. Thanks again.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,994
Likes: 3,981
From: Cold Harbor, VA
Am I too cynical?
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 15,555
Likes: 555
From: Eagle, Idaho
We've all seen that job done by consignment dealers and I would not want it done to my car. It is black rattle can spray bomb of the frame, with a half-assed masking job of surrounding underbody fiberglass. Looks like crap. The dealer would give his shop helper $50 for three hours work, and pocket $1450 for himself.
Am I too cynical?
Am I too cynical?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,335
Likes: 2,271
From: NorCal
We've all seen that job done by consignment dealers and I would not want it done to my car. It is black rattle can spray bomb of the frame, with a half-assed masking job of surrounding underbody fiberglass. Looks like crap. The dealer would give his shop helper $50 for three hours work, and pocket $1450 for himself.
Am I too cynical?
Am I too cynical?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,335
Likes: 2,271
From: NorCal
To the OP -
Since there is some question about rust, I would recommend an additional step of inspection to get a look at the passenger side of the cowl framework/ "birdcage".
Ask the seller for either permission for you or the consignment dealer to remove the glove box door and glove box liner. It's about a 15 minute job and will you a direct look into the metal framework structure. Well worth the time and effort!
Since there is some question about rust, I would recommend an additional step of inspection to get a look at the passenger side of the cowl framework/ "birdcage".
Ask the seller for either permission for you or the consignment dealer to remove the glove box door and glove box liner. It's about a 15 minute job and will you a direct look into the metal framework structure. Well worth the time and effort!
Last edited by tuxnharley; Sep 15, 2017 at 03:12 PM. Reason: Typo
