Midyear frame question....
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 4
From: Marblehead MA
Midyear frame question....
Not that long ago someone said in a post that the later midyears had a strengthened frame, and I believe the reply was all the midyear frames were the same. However, last night I was looking at a late production 64 Coupe up on a lift and noticed on both sides of the frame next to the ‘kick up’ there appears to be a triangle piece of steel (gusset) welded in between the side frame rails and the ‘kick up’ cross member. Is this a factory modification to the frame or someone trying to ‘fix’ a problem... :confused: I forgot to add the frame looked mint.... no visible rust..... thanks.... :)
[Modified by achapman, 3:03 PM 10/8/2002]
[Modified by achapman, 3:03 PM 10/8/2002]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 4
From: Marblehead MA
Re: Midyear frame question.... (achapman)
I just looked at the Long Island Corvette catalog, and it shows the gussets and states in their catalog that these were available after 4/21/64... here is the bookmark...
http://www.licorvette.com/pdfcatalogfiles/cat20/53.pdf
So I guess there really was a 'strengthing' done to the midyear frames.... :yesnod:
http://www.licorvette.com/pdfcatalogfiles/cat20/53.pdf
So I guess there really was a 'strengthing' done to the midyear frames.... :yesnod:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 1
From: WA
Re: Midyear frame question.... (achapman)
Andy, since we are talking gussets here, I added two of them to my sombrero brackets on my 67 frame when I was fixing it. I had seen these gussets added to a later sombrero bracket, it made sense to me. One of my brackets had pulled away from the frame crossmember(but still welded) and the other one was starting. Adding these gussets gave the sombrero brackets some extra support. My frame is not the only one I've seen with this problem. Open to comments.
Craig
BTW, If anybody is interested in a pic, I can scan a pic to someone who can post.
[Modified by Cmacsvette, 10:03 PM 10/8/2002]
Craig
BTW, If anybody is interested in a pic, I can scan a pic to someone who can post.
[Modified by Cmacsvette, 10:03 PM 10/8/2002]
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Downtown
Re: Midyear frame question.... (Cmacsvette)
yeah, that is another of those 63 differences. my 63 has no triangular reinforcement there either.
also the 63's had different crossmembers under the engine pulleys, later models had an indentation for more engine / pulley room
I also have a "tool box" depression under the seats :seeya
also the 63's had different crossmembers under the engine pulleys, later models had an indentation for more engine / pulley room
I also have a "tool box" depression under the seats :seeya
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From: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Re: Midyear frame question.... (14-Paul)
I can attest to the mid 64 addition of the frame gussets. Don't know the exact SN, but 63's don't have them....early 64's don't have them either. Helped/am still helping a friend do a frame off on his 64 coupe. His has the "extra" gussets. Chuck
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Re: Midyear frame question.... (stngry63)
I don't remember the exact date, but I believe the gussets between the #3 crossmember and side rails were added during the Midyear era.
For 1969 the frame was beefed up again with reinforcements from the top of the #3 crossmember aft to the kicked up side rails.
The intersection of the #3 crossmember, siderails, and kickup has always been the weakest point of the C2/3 frame, and it's also the area that usually sees the worst corrosion damage for cars that have seen a lot of salt. In fact, Corvette frames are known to break in half at the kickup interface if they are heavily corroded.
Duke
For 1969 the frame was beefed up again with reinforcements from the top of the #3 crossmember aft to the kicked up side rails.
The intersection of the #3 crossmember, siderails, and kickup has always been the weakest point of the C2/3 frame, and it's also the area that usually sees the worst corrosion damage for cars that have seen a lot of salt. In fact, Corvette frames are known to break in half at the kickup interface if they are heavily corroded.
Duke
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From: If I say it's safe to surf this beach ......then it's safe to surf this beach
Re: Midyear frame question.... (achapman)
I just looked at the Long Island Corvette catalog, and it shows the gussets and states in their catalog that these were available after 4/21/64...
..... According to the AIM a bolt-and-nut connection was added to the chassis on 04-22-64 to provide a solid electrical ground between the body and the frame. This is the approx. date on which serial number 116000 (16000) was built. Using standard body mount washers and cushions, the nut and bolt connected the body to a special bracket on the frame near the #3 body mount, directly in front of the left rear wheel.
On page 201 he has an illustration of Mounts 3 & 4 and the gusset is shown. For a long time I've associated the appearance of the gusset with the electrical connection, as well as for reinforcement. My 02-07-64 Coupe does not have it but a former 05-64 Roadster did.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 185
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From: San Antonio TX
Re: Midyear frame question.... (Cmacsvette)
Here are Cmacsvette's pics:
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/gary1930/guss1.jpg
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/gary1930/guss3.jpg
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/gary1930/guss1.jpg
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/gary1930/guss3.jpg
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 1
From: WA
Re: Midyear frame question.... (4_inch_Bore)
Four years ago when I was working on my frame, I noticed my sombrero brackets needed help. The left one was pulled away and twisted a bit.(but still welded), the right one had started to pull and twist. I was able to save the right side, but it was easier to grind the left one off and start over. Found a new used one in salvage and noticed a few of them with these gussets on them. They were all welded the same, so to me it looked factory. I'm guessing C3. Knowing how mine had that lack of support at that point, I added them to both brackets. I always forget to look at a C3 to see if these are there. So C3 guys let me know. Keep in mind, mine is and always has been a BB. I can't help but think that torque etc. has had a play in this. 4 inch Bore and myself are open to comments.
Thanks, Craig :cheers:
BTW, the thickness is the same as the bracket, approx 14-12 ga, without getting my micrometer out.
[Modified by Cmacsvette, 3:52 AM 10/9/2002]
Thanks, Craig :cheers:
BTW, the thickness is the same as the bracket, approx 14-12 ga, without getting my micrometer out.
[Modified by Cmacsvette, 3:52 AM 10/9/2002]
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Re: Midyear frame question.... (Cmacsvette)
Maybe I'm confused??? Looked at CMAC's pix. Those aren't the gussets I'm talking about. I'm speaking of the large triangular gussets...on the bottom of the frame, between the side rail and the "kick up" areas. They're so big, they look like "trays". Chuck
[Modified by Chuck Gongloff, 5:00 AM 10/9/2002]
[Modified by Chuck Gongloff, 5:00 AM 10/9/2002]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,740
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From: Marblehead MA
Re: Midyear frame question.... (Chuck Gongloff)
I agree with Chuck, those pix don't show the gussets. Look at my earlier post with the link to L.I. Corvette. Their exploded frame diagram (Part #10) shows the gussets clearly. It doesn't say what the guage is, but the cost is $20 each for these.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 1
From: WA
Re: Midyear frame question.... (Chuck Gongloff)
Chuck, Andy, your right, those gussets are not the two gussets of the topic. I brought these gussets up about the 7th post down, since we were talking gussets. Then 4 " Bore took some interest and posted them for me.
The gussets of the main topic are the two big gussets located in the rear corners of the side rails and kick ups. Sorry, didn't mean to confuse people.
Craig
[Modified by Cmacsvette, 4:21 PM 10/9/2002]
The gussets of the main topic are the two big gussets located in the rear corners of the side rails and kick ups. Sorry, didn't mean to confuse people.
Craig
[Modified by Cmacsvette, 4:21 PM 10/9/2002]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 4
From: Marblehead MA
Re: Midyear frame question.... (Solidlifters)
I've never been as confused in my life. By the way, what the hell is a "Sombrero bracket"? Is that something under the car in case you run over a mexican?