JMG2

STarted the motor today after driving it around a bit, car stalled in the parking lot. Tried starting it again, heard a crunching noise (helllllooooo connecting rod), and antifreeze *poured* out of the left side pipe.

Car is safely at a shop now, just wanted to get some thoughts on options-

1) the car is a NOM 327/350. I could fix it... And, assuming it was just a head gasket and no major damage, I'll go this route. but .. assuming the worst...
2) motor swap -- I'm thinking of doing a zz6 swap. it's retro enough that I don't think it kills the character of the car, yet it's brand new... with a warranty .

any thoughts on this ? My feeling is that if it were an original motor, I'd obviously bend over backwards to fix and keep it, but since it's not.. dropping in another 327 doesn't really preserve its value. I don't want to do an LS swap .. I have plenty of those. But the zz6 intrigues me ...

Anyone that's done a 350 swap, is there any major issues? mounting/clearance issues?

Any thoughts welcome

65hihp

Never heard of N14 as a radiator drain **** before....!
I don't even want to think about that one. No way!

USMC 0802

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I have a ‘66 with a NOM 327 and ditched the shitty old engine this spring for a GMPP 350 crate motor with roller cam, alum heads, etc. Bolted right in and runs strong as hell - haven’t used a drop of oil.

Crate motors are a no brainer unless you have an original block, IMHO. My GM motor has brand new block, heads, etc. with 385 HP and a 24 month/50k mi warranty. What’s not to like?

Look up my build thread for the gory details and pics.

Good luck!

JMG2

Thanks.. I'm vacillating on this. part of me wants the 327 to keep it old school, but since it's non original to begin with...

zz6 is *such* a nice motor. 400 hp, comes with everything-- carb, distro, full accessories... I'll look up your build thread. I've dropped a 350 into a '88 jeep cheorkee, I'm thinking this will be a much easier swap.

cv67

If youre going to spend money may as well feel it in the seat of your pants, do the ZZ, 50+ yrs is a pretty good run + peace of mind not having to baby it.

GearheadJoe

Wow, that sounds pretty strange to have coolant pouring out the exhaust. Maybe it's just a catastrophic failure of a head gasket, but I suppose that a broken rod punching through the cylinder wall could also do this. If that happened, I would expect to see some coolant in the oil pan as well.

Regarding the ZZ6, that is an easy, turn-key swap if you want to go that way, but keep in mind that you won't be able to run the unvented OEM valve covers on that engine without doing some modification work. The unvented valve covers depend on the rear crankcase vent shown in the attached photo. That vent disappeared after 1967 in all blocks except the '512 service replacement blocks.

If your block turns out to be okay and it has the rear vent, keep in mind that any 327 can be easily stroked to 350 just by installing a 350 crank and pistons. With some minor work, some 327 blocks can be stroked to 383. Given that the ZZ6 is about $7K, you could use a similar budget to make a 350 or 383 long block out of the engine you have. You already have a distributor, intake, and carb.

Alternatively, you could buy a ZZ383 long block for about the same cost as the ZZ6, and then swap over your existing distributor, intake, and carb. I now have a 383 in my '67 and I absolutely love it.

JMG2

this is all very helpful guys.
What I'm not hearing is "you're an idiot, keep the 327!!!"

Price really isn't an issue on this car, within reason. I debated an ls swap and I was actually thinking about it (I have a c5, and love the ls1), but -- and no disrespect to anyone that's done it-- It just wouldn't feel right in the '67. And my goal is to have something that I just turn the key, it starts, no drama with overheating or breaking down. 400hp is nice, and more than I would ever have considered dropping in (the 327 was more than enough for me in this car-- I don't want to get it too unbalanced with a high HP motor)

I'm going to poke around it tomorrow or monday, but if it's a major fail, I'm going to lean towards the zz6.

And when I say *pour* out of the side pipe -- it literally looked as if someone had disconnected the lower hose and put it in the exhaust pipe. even after sitting flat for an hour waiting for the tow, putting it on an incline and pulling it up the flat bed, it continued to pour out. I'll keep my fingers crossed, and hope the head gasket just disintegrated, and none of the connecting rods pushed through the wall.

cv67

Ouch, thats bad alright.
The NCRS crowd will be over from the factory correct section soon to tell you youre a fool.

JMG2

It was NOM when I bought it (documented warranty swap for a 327/350 back in '68--- not that it makes a difference) I don't see how swapping in a better NOM motor makes any difference.

Robert61

If you are interested in looking for the problem a quick check of the spark plugs should answer the question. A dropped valve would break the head in the flat area resulting in major water out of the exhaust. A broken rod would fill the pan but not much damage to the plug. A valve banging around in the chamber would beat the plug up.

JMG2

thanks. I don't have the heart to look at it tomororw. it's at my dad's shop, may take a look at it on monday.

Kerrmudgeon

Take a couple of pics of that 'ventilated' block for us. I'm thinking rod let go and smashed through a cylinder wall.....enter antifreeze....open exhaust valve and make side pipe into sprinkler.

SI67

Things that I'd want to know before trying a ZZ6 swap-in:

1) Hood clearance? The intake manifold seems pretty tall.

2) Can you install a conventional accessory drive belt system on the ZZ6, or do you have to run a serpentine system. I;m not sure the serpentine system that comes on the turn-key version will fit in a C2. There's at least one company making a serpentine system designed to fit, but it costs.

3) Water pump? I think it comes with a long water pump. Do you need to swap in a short one? Is there a short one that fits the ZZ6? What are the drive belt system ramifications?

I don't know if any of these things are tough issues. Maybe OP already has the experience to know these answers. I'm hoping for his sake that it's just a head gasket that failed!

Easy Rhino

I'm not a numbers matching purist, but I would want to know the cause of the problem before I did anything. If it's just one head - it could happen - it's a whole lot cheaper to just replace the damaged pieces.

JMG2

All very good points.

1) on hood clearance, if I have to, I'llk get a low-rise intake and a thinner intake element.

2) on serpentine, zz6 is basically same setup as a late 80s/early 90s 350 -- which I've worked on a bit... it's setup for a serpentine. I'm sure you can run whatever you want, but I would keep the serpentine, unless there's a reason to swap-- it's superior in every sense to having a different belt for each accessory.

3) on the water pump, you're probably right. That's a simple swap, but a very good point I wasn't thinking about.

And agreed-- if it's a gasket, I'll lean towards fixing. but if I'm starting to get into head work... again, I'd rather just have something that's reliable and I don't have to worry about. I was actually planning on taking the car upstate this fall with my wife, would have really hurt if that happened on the road (which is the silver lining in all of this -- it happened in a tow-accessible parking lot, 5 minutes away from a AAA tow service-- if it had happened 10 minutes later, I would have been on the highway).

JMG2

I know -- and this isn't the 'vette's fault -- I've been around older cars my entire life, and I'm used to always fixing them. I'm just a little tired of it. This car in particular I just want to drive. I don't want to be constantly fixing stuff that breaks. If it's anything other than a gasket, I'm going to lean towards a swap.

Nowhere Man

no offence a new crate motor can have a failure just like a good rebuilt used motor. there have been plenty of bad stories on here of crate motor failures. so don't think your be out of the woods yet. plus with new motors you have a whole new set of problems you must address

Plasticman

Some other cautions:

If anything like a ZZ4, it will have a plastic timing cover, that may interfere with a stock "short" water pump (think it is a bolt head that actually is interfering, but don't remember - WMF62 ran across that issue). Aftermarket pumps (Edelbrock) can "fix" that. Also, if it has a serpentine system now, the water pump runs in the opposite direction.....

I think the ZZ6 uses Vortec heads, which do not allow usage of your old intake.

And it comes with a HEI dist., which will not have a tach drive, and will not fit under the shielding.

If your issue is just a head, think about the Trick Flow heads that were a subject of a thread here recently, or some other aftermarket heads.

Plasticman

JMG2

Thanks-- all very good advice.
Like I said, I don't have the heart to look at it today. I'll pull it apart tomorrow or over the weekend. If it looks fixable, I'll do it -- I just spent a crap load of $$ on the body, I don't feel like dumping in $10k plus on a zz6 if I can avoid it. But I also don't feel like dealing with a 50 year old motor crapping out on me randomly ... I deal with that on my other cars, I jsut want this one to work.

Crunch527

For the hassle of it all, go with the 383 and some good flowing aluminum heads...freshen the consumables while you are there...clutch, hoses, belts etc, and drive and enjoy.