Mike Plummer

Recently pulled the SBC out of my 65. The block is a run in the mill 327, not produced in Flint but the heads are 462s before I set them all in the barn thought I would ask what they may be worth in a world where aluminum heads are so available. Thanks

68hemi

In my opinion not much unless you find an NCRS guy that needs them on a particular car for points. They hold little performance value compared to the heads you referred to above.

Easy Rhino

As someone who has been looking for a reasonably priced set of date-matching 461s that are not door stops, allow me to offer the minority opinion.

What I see in rough price ranges:

$100-300 for a pair "returning to nature," bare, rusty, with some busted corners or bolt bosses.

$300-600 for a pretty clean set, not bare, but need to be reworked.

$600-1000 for a good-to go set with everything, price varying with quality and selection of components.

$1200-1800 for a set professionally cleaned up with all top-rate components.

Labor for reworking extra, or thrown in for free, but of iffy quality, in cheaper heads.

Yes, the world knows that new aluminum heads are cheaper and produce more power with a greater margin to detonation, and are lighter.

But the thing is this: Selling old sbc iron heads takes a great deal of patience. Some of the same 461 heads have been for sale for years.

Here's a set for $1,100: https://www.ebay.com/itm/66-Chevy-sm...4383.l4275.c10

68hemi

with ALL of the above.

Rob_64-365

If they are in good shape & you advertise them on here with the date codes, they are valuable to someone that needs a set with that date code head. Not that judges at a show remove valve covers, but people do have a passion for thier cars. With that said, I have bought sets for $75 on craigslist, and i have also bought sets on this forum with the right date codes for $600 that needed to be fully gone thru.

OC-1

flint or Tonawanda castings?

DZAUTO

I have no issues with any of the above replies.
Although, I will add this. If a person wishes to retain a more or less factory, or original head appearance, but have good performance, then a set of 461-462 type heads CAN DELIVER excellent flow and performance--------------WITH ENOUGH MONEY! And that is the key, MONEY to work over the chambers, bowls and runners. As much as, or even more than, a lot of head work, building an early engine that originally had a flat tappet cam, a retro roller cam can really wake up a first generation engine. So, how much performance a person expects to extract from an early engine is proportional to how much money is spent for extreme upgrades.
I feel that something which a LOT of people fail to grasp, is that a piston going up and down in a cylinder has no clue as to the block it is in when going up and down. All the performance gains are a direct result of AIR FLOW into the cylinder-----------------and that is accomplished with cam profile and flow characteristics of the head.

Mike Plummer

My assumption is Tonawanda I would have to look at the book to get the spacifics regarding dates. Thanks to each who have commented for all of your guidance.

SWCDuke

Having worked with several owners who chose either my "327 LT-1" or "Special 300 HP" configuration with "massaged" OE heads I've gathered a decent library of flow data.

With typical pocket porting, chamber relieving, and port matching flow is about 220/170 CFM @ 28" H2O depression in the 0.45-0.5" lift range, and this is better than many aftermarket heads, most of which have "as-cast" ports.

The best I have seen is about 230/190, and as OE-machined about 200/130. Note that the E/I flow ratio as OE machined is about 0.65, but increases to near 0.80 with proper massaging, which has implications on valve timing. More on this in in my "Tale of Two Camshafts" article, which is a pdf on this forum.

Some showed an actual reduction in inlet flow beyond about 0.5" lift that I think this is some kind of shrouding mechanism. It's possible that these heads may have originally been standard valve size increased to the larger inlet valve without doing the required chamber relieving cut.

In any event, since the maximum actual valve lift taking into account the real 1.44:1 peak lift rocker ratio never exceeds 0.45" with a production cam lobe, any reduction above this lift value is irrelevant.

Valve size doesn't appear to have a large influence, and in fact, the best combined flow I have seen have the standard valve size, but the owner went through three iterations of grinding/flow testing to get the final results.

My recommendation is to always maintain the standard valve size if that's how they were originally manufactured because with the larger valve set, a crack is more likely to develop between the seats. Of course, if the heads were manufactured with the larger valve set, you can't go back.

Everyone should have the experience of massaging a set of OE cast iron heads, but you will never want to do another set!

Duke

vettsplit 63

I had a performance shop prepare a set of 461X heads just as they would have back in the day for a modified production car. Stainless Manley valves, new bronze guides, screw in studs, pocket porting, bowl work, matching the intake runners to 1206 Fel Prod gaskets, and (oops) hard seats. Total cost $1800. That was a mistake. One of the heads had a leak out the #1 exhaust port. So I had a really nice trot line weight. I was able to find a really nice looking set of vintage Mondellos and had the engine guy check them out. Although they passed a leak test, they looked like a spiderweb on the magnaflux. He said that he would never trust them on a street driven car. Sooooo, I put them in the corner, and bought a set of Edelbrock E street heads for about $900. I am done with 55 year old cast iron heads.

tbarb

I have a set of Flint 461's that had a standard valve job and have been oiled and wrapped in my basement for years. Post the dates you are looking for and I'll check them. I also have the machine shop ticket showing the work that was done to them.

DZAUTO

MANY, MANY machinists will try to convince you to have hard seats installed for the exhaust valves. For MANY years I have strongly discouraged hard ex seats. For these older cars, which are not normally subjected to extreme/severe/extended loading conditions, just have not exhibited valve seat recession as was claimed by many sources when leaded gas went away. AND, there have been occasions when cutting into the seat for the installation of a hard seat has gone into the water jacket (which makes a head junk). SOOOOOOOOOOO, IT IS MY STRONG OPINION that installing hard seats in these old heads SHOULD NOT BE DONE! A head that originally had 1.94/1.5 valves can easily be opened up for 2.02/1.6 valves---------PROVIDED the combustion wall is machined for releaving around the intake valve, as below. This is a set of 461X heads that I had worked over many years ago and they are still doing just fine today.

65tripleblack

The "cyl 3" column is the final result. Exhaust flowrates are without pipe stub and flowing drirctly from head ports, which makes flowrates about 10% less than with pipe (manifold) attached.

68hemi

To have heads that will flow properly for what MOST people want to build in an engine today for the money you will be WAY ahead to just buy the aluminum heads. If you want an original look buy the new Trick Flow look-a-like heads. Why people would pay for date coded heads when you can't see the dates with the valve covers on is beyond me. Just **** people I guess.

6T5RUSH

Just saw this thread on vintage heads. I posted my experience showing detailed cost And flow results on my '461 heads here (post #82):

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...t-block-5.html

Jim
In God We Trust!

DZAUTO

Because I learned, and did, all this kind of stuff LONG BEFORE today's aftermarket parts were available. Also, I still have a few sets of good iron heads that I can have machined (which I need to use up rather than buying more parts!!!)!

AZDoug

16 hours with a pneumatic die grinder and some carbide burrs and then a bunch of sanding rolls cured me.

Doug

vettsplit 63

back in the day when everybody was running the 292 turbo heads in modified, I watched the guys at Reher-Morrison sitting at the bench with grinders, doing the porting work. and even though there were vacuum outlets on the bench, they were still covered in carbon dust, filings. Nasty!

68hemi

I was not singling anyone out, it was a general statement now that all of the new aluminum heads are available. Of course it was different before we had all of these choices. I was speaking to those that have not yet made a purchase choice that don't have existing inventory such as you. If I already had a set done I would likely use them also.

MikeM

Well, I don't know most people but I do know what I want and I can guarantee, I'm not **** about anything.

Most people I know want to get by for a reasonable price and and aren't concerned about putting three car lengths on the new cars. They want something cheap and good.

There are still heads out there that do not require $1500 worth of work to make them very usable. The last three sets of heads I've used were simply given a three angle valve job, spring height set and in only one case, new guides pressed in. The cheap ones.

All the engines have performed great. No oil burning, no low compression, no problem. All used with Duntov's cams.

If you want bragging rights and quite a bit more power, by all means, go to modern heads and the roller cams that can take advantage of the improved breathing. Just don't try to do it on the old iron heads if you're worried about $$$$$$$.