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Mike does your 64 have the TI clip under the drivers side hood latch
No, it is not like later TI cars. Here is a picture after it was pulled out of a garage after 30 years of storage before restoration. You can see the routing of the heavy black cloth taped TI harness on the left side of the booster support, and is actually tied by the white strap and hung from the hood release cable.
No, it is not like later TI cars. Here is a picture after it was pulled out of a garage after 30 years of storage before restoration. You can see the routing of the heavy black cloth taped TI harness on the left side of the booster support, and is actually tied by the white strap and hung from the hood release cable.
Thanks. Then the op can disregard my one comment and question.
Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate hearing all sides. If someone bought a used block to try and make it look original, it was done awhile ago. Not sure how long the previous owner had the car, but my impression was it had been a long time.
When I bought the car it was setup with points, so it does have a ballast resistor. I looked on the drivers side front and rear of the radiator support and didn't see any obvious mounting holes. I do have an odd cut out on the rad support, not sure why that is there. Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think.
This is not an original whole from a factory fuelie core support. Looks like someone made one to fit a fuelie air cleaner. But not a factory job. Here is a factory hole
Last edited by provette67; 02-24-2018 at 07:37 PM.
What planet do you live on? Just start looking for something specific like that and see how many you find. I was looking for a 327 block with a draft tube for my 383 built about 6 months ago. Not a specific year, casting number or date. I advertised here, my local Craig's List and on Racing Junk. It took a month to find one which was across the country and it cost more to have it shipped than it did to buy. There just aren't many old junk yards left out there that haven't crushed most of this stuff. Today you have to find a hoarder of these things or someone that has been in business for a long time buying them up like Engines Limited that makes a business out of building and stamping resto engines. If they did it, it would be done as to not arouse suspicion, not like some "I don't care what it looks like" line worker from 50 years ago. THEY DID NOT LOOK PERFECT, it was a moving assembly line and it only had to be stamped and sometimes not even legible.
Well I am not sure what planet that you live on. Or maybe I am hoarder from 30yrs ago. I currently have three passenger car blocks like this one dated one month prior,the same month and the month afterward. I have probably sold a dozen of these in the past 20yrs.Still have a lot more than a few left.These blocks were and still are cheap compared to a Corvette block. I plan on selling all of my old blocks,heads and cranks to Engines Limited this summer. You are right though that if they would have stamped this block it would have been much better.
I think I have read elsewhere that at the Flint engine plant when things were busy, they sometimes stamped the engine assembly stamping with a gang holder that had only the assembly date and possibly the first character of the engine code. Then, once the specific engine code was determined, they later added one or both of the engine code letters by hand.
I have no direct knowledge of whether this is true or not, but I think I read it from a trustworthy source. Presumably, an experienced NCRS judge would be familiar with this practice if, in fact, it did occur.
from the NCRS TDB the flint plant stamped the assembly date and suffix code as a compete long block with the water pump installed. so when it was stamped they knew what it was not a one size fits all sort of thing.
..........as well as the '63 models. No VINS factory stamped on these blocks. A buddy of mine bought a whole '63 that was totaled, just to get the block. That was almost 40 years ago. I think he still has it, waiting for some big money offer.
Mike,
That's true for the plain S or R. The SB & RB (300hp) got the VIN.
from the NCRS TDB the flint plant stamped the assembly date and suffix code as a compete long block with the water pump installed. so when it was stamped they knew what it was not a one size fits all sort of thing.
I can't really argue this either way, since I'm only repeating something that I recall reading somewhere.
I completely agree that the normal procedure was to have both the assembly date and the engine suffix all stamped at one time, especially for engines that were being produced in high volume. The circumstances that allegedly led to adding the final suffix letter(s) by hand were related to engines that were not produced in high volume.
In any event, whether this possibility is fact or fiction should not be hard to determine. There are a few experts in the NCRS who have extensive knowledge about factory pad stampings and have studied literally thousands of original pads. I will check with one of them to see what he says.
Well I am not sure what planet that you live on. Or maybe I am hoarder from 30yrs ago. I currently have three passenger car blocks like this one dated one month prior,the same month and the month afterward. I have probably sold a dozen of these in the past 20yrs.Still have a lot more than a few left.These blocks were and still are cheap compared to a Corvette block. I plan on selling all of my old blocks,heads and cranks to Engines Limited this summer. You are right though that if they would have stamped this block it would have been much better.
Yes, I think you are a hoarder. You always seem to have at least three of everything.
I can't really argue this either way, since I'm only repeating something that I recall reading somewhere.
I completely agree that the normal procedure was to have both the assembly date and the engine suffix all stamped at one time, especially for engines that were being produced in high volume. The circumstances that allegedly led to adding the final suffix letter(s) by hand were related to engines that were not produced in high volume.
In any event, whether this possibility is fact or fiction should not be hard to determine. There are a few experts in the NCRS who have extensive knowledge about factory pad stampings and have studied literally thousands of original pads. I will check with one of them to see what he says.
Okay, as promised, I checked with a pad expert I know. He says that sometimes Flint added the suffix characters by hand, especially for early production of rare options.
I also made a quick online check to see if a simple "R" code was used on any passenger cars in 1964. That would make it very easy for someone to simply add the "T" and a serial number. However, it appears that a simple "R" code only appeared a few times up through 1962. This block was cast in February 1964.
I also want to expand on what has been said earlier about the meaning of the engine suffix. If two Flint small blocks have different suffix codes on the assembly stamping, it means that SOMETHING about the engine assembly, as delivered from Flint, is different between the two engines. If there is no difference between the two assemblies as delivered from Flint, they get the same suffix code.
One example is the difference between the HT and HP codes used on the L79 in 1967. The HT code was used for most Corvette L79s, but when the L79 was installed in a car that had BOTH air conditioning and power steering, its suffix code was changed to HP.
Many people have wondered what could possibly be different about the Flint engine assembly that received the HP code. Based on my research, the answer is that the water pump pulley flange was placed 1/16" farther forward on the HP assembly than on the HT assembly. This was because GM used a standard-groove pulley set on the HP engine, but used a deep-groove pullet set on the HT engine. The different pulley sets require a different water pump pulley offset to align correctly. So, this one little change required a different assembly suffix so that the St. Louis factory could tell the engines apart.
So, what is different about a 1964 365 HP engine with standard ignition compared to the same engine with TI ignition? Why did Flint have to clearly distinguish between the two versions based on what they were shipping to St. Louis? My guess is that it is because the distributor and coil (which I believe were both installed at Flint) were different for the TI version.
So, if the ultimate configuration of the engine was identical until the distributor and coil got installed, one could imagine that Flint might wait until the last minute before assigning a given engine to be a TI engine.
Okay, as promised, I checked with a pad expert I know. He says that sometimes Flint added the suffix characters by hand, especially for early production of rare options.
I also made a quick online check to see if a simple "R" code was used on any passenger cars in 1964. That would make it very easy for someone to simply add the "T" and a serial number. However, it appears that a simple "R" code only appeared a few times up through 1962. This block was cast in February 1964.
I also want to expand on what has been said earlier about the meaning of the engine suffix. If two Flint small blocks have different suffix codes on the assembly stamping, it means that SOMETHING about the engine assembly, as delivered from Flint, is different between the two engines. If there is no difference between the two assemblies as delivered from Flint, they get the same suffix code.
One example is the difference between the HT and HP codes used on the L79 in 1967. The HT code was used for most Corvette L79s, but when the L79 was installed in a car that had BOTH air conditioning and power steering, its suffix code was changed to HP.
Many people have wondered what could possibly be different about the Flint engine assembly that received the HP code. Based on my research, the answer is that the water pump pulley flange was placed 1/16" farther forward on the HP assembly than on the HT assembly. This was because GM used a standard-groove pulley set on the HP engine, but used a deep-groove pullet set on the HT engine. The different pulley sets require a different water pump pulley offset to align correctly. So, this one little change required a different assembly suffix so that the St. Louis factory could tell the engines apart.
So, what is different about a 1964 365 HP engine with standard ignition compared to the same engine with TI ignition? Why did Flint have to clearly distinguish between the two versions based on what they were shipping to St. Louis? My guess is that it is because the distributor and coil (which I believe were both installed at Flint) were different for the TI version.
So, if the ultimate configuration of the engine was identical until the distributor and coil got installed, one could imagine that Flint might wait until the last minute before assigning a given engine to be a TI engine.
I am not sure (likely some expert will correct me if I am wrong) but I believe that engines were delivered from Flint to St Louis complete, as in with dist., coil and induction. I think that this engine may have been stamped with the last character EITHER at Flint or St. Louis. It was a rare option with just over 550 made in 1964. It COULD have been a 365 h.p. engine in St. Louis inventory that was pulled and added and then stamped as such.
Okay, as promised, I checked with a pad expert I know. He says that sometimes Flint added the suffix characters by hand, especially for early production of rare options.
I also made a quick online check to see if a simple "R" code was used on any passenger cars in 1964. That would make it very easy for someone to simply add the "T" and a serial number. However, it appears that a simple "R" code only appeared a few times up through 1962. This block was cast in February 1964.
I also want to expand on what has been said earlier about the meaning of the engine suffix. If two Flint small blocks have different suffix codes on the assembly stamping, it means that SOMETHING about the engine assembly, as delivered from Flint, is different between the two engines. If there is no difference between the two assemblies as delivered from Flint, they get the same suffix code.
One example is the difference between the HT and HP codes used on the L79 in 1967. The HT code was used for most Corvette L79s, but when the L79 was installed in a car that had BOTH air conditioning and power steering, its suffix code was changed to HP.
Many people have wondered what could possibly be different about the Flint engine assembly that received the HP code. Based on my research, the answer is that the water pump pulley flange was placed 1/16" farther forward on the HP assembly than on the HT assembly. This was because GM used a standard-groove pulley set on the HP engine, but used a deep-groove pullet set on the HT engine. The different pulley sets require a different water pump pulley offset to align correctly. So, this one little change required a different assembly suffix so that the St. Louis factory could tell the engines apart.
So, what is different about a 1964 365 HP engine with standard ignition compared to the same engine with TI ignition? Why did Flint have to clearly distinguish between the two versions based on what they were shipping to St. Louis? My guess is that it is because the distributor and coil (which I believe were both installed at Flint) were different for the TI version.
So, if the ultimate configuration of the engine was identical until the distributor and coil got installed, one could imagine that Flint might wait until the last minute before assigning a given engine to be a TI engine.
This may have been the case with a few engines. But highly doubtful with the pad shown in this thread. The grinding swirl marks shown in this picture are not from adding a single letter.
This may have been the case with a few engines. But highly doubtful with the pad shown in this thread. The grinding swirl marks shown in this picture are not from adding a single letter.
I am not sure (likely some expert will correct me if I am wrong) but I believe that engines were delivered from Flint to St Louis complete, as in with dist., coil and induction. I think that this engine may have been stamped with the last character EITHER at Flint or St. Louis. It was a rare option with just over 550 made in 1964. It COULD have been a 365 h.p. engine in St. Louis inventory that was pulled and added and then stamped as such.
The problem with this theory is that the non-TI 365 HP engine had a suffix of RE, not just R. Based on the photos posted of this pad, I see no evidence of another character being present before the T was stamped. In 1964, all the small block engine codes were two letters.
I agree with you that engines were likely shipped from Flint with the distributor and coil installed. I recall reading that every engine got a short operational test before it was shipped.
So, I doubt Flint was swapping distributors for that operational test. If the distributor was installed when the engine left Flint, I think the engine assembly code would been completed at Flint.
It would present a lot quality control headache for St. Louis to have to figure things out in their factory, since the two versions of the engine would be identical except for the distributor and coil. I think that all St. Louis looked at was the two-character assembly suffix that told them immediately the exact engine configuration they were looking at.
To St. Louis, the engine assembly was a single "part" that had been delivered to them from Flint.
02-24-2018, 05:08 PM
