Preventing and resolving vapor lock?
07-22-2018, 11:17 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
Factoid, pleased you had no problems and enjoyed the hot Texas day. 100°F here in Houston today, and I had my 61 with 2 x 4 WCFBs running around at mid-day. It is all stock as GM designed except I replaced the 283 with a DART 400 block and DART heads. I have run the car over 50 years and 200,000 miles and periodically had the hot start problems.
About 15 years ago I made set of WCFB base-manifold gaskets from 3/16 oak cabinet plywood to insulate the heat from the WCFBs. It starts when hot like it was fuel injected. People are always amazed how easily it starts after even a short 2-5 minute shutdown.
If you have the 2 x 4s off sometime, might want to consider the wooden gasket/insulator; there are no polymer after market spacers for WCFBs.
Joe
About 15 years ago I made set of WCFB base-manifold gaskets from 3/16 oak cabinet plywood to insulate the heat from the WCFBs. It starts when hot like it was fuel injected. People are always amazed how easily it starts after even a short 2-5 minute shutdown.
If you have the 2 x 4s off sometime, might want to consider the wooden gasket/insulator; there are no polymer after market spacers for WCFBs.
Joe
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Factoid (07-23-2018)
07-23-2018, 01:29 AM
#42
Melting Slicks
If the problem was widespread in Arizona, in the middle of the last century, the Detroit OEM's would have made design changes for those cars that were sold in Arizona.. Keeping in mind that Ford and I think GM had proving grounds in Arizona back then to test for hot weather problems. Both also had proving ground or test sites way up north where it gets -40*/'-50*F to test for cold weather problems. Do you really think they overlooked something or did your problems originate because of your driveway tinkering on something they designed right the first time?
It sometimes gets just as hot here as it does in Arizona by the way or anywhere else in the country. Just not as often.
It sometimes gets just as hot here as it does in Arizona by the way or anywhere else in the country. Just not as often.
It's just not fair the way you sequence your 'answers'. In this thread , none of them were actually answers to anything except trying to make the point that vapour lock and percolation are different things, and that they don't exist in this perfect Corvette world anyway except due to the stupidity or imagination of those who own the car. You write 'Never, ever heard or seen a midyear Corvette with vapor lock if the car hasn't been modified in some way from OEM design.' How do you think this answer helps anyone?
If your point is that no problems exist as long as one has a 100% stock/original/oem and - why not - matching numbers car then even if true it may have slipped your mind that 99.9% of the 2018 midyears are not that kind. Age does things to cars, as to people ...
07-23-2018, 07:23 AM
#43
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Do you think your problem(s) are related simply due to ethanol or, are they more related to gasoline vapor pressure of the entire gasoline mix?
Gotta' be careful here as I am a little over my pay grade so I'll let this link do the talking.
Check out the Phoenix area
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standar...vapor-pressure
07-23-2018, 07:36 AM
#44
Team Owner
Mike,
It's just not fair the way you sequence your 'answers'. In this thread , none of them were actually answers to anything except trying to make the point that vapour lock and percolation are different things, and that they don't exist in this perfect Corvette world anyway except due to the stupidity or imagination of those who own the car. You write 'Never, ever heard or seen a midyear Corvette with vapor lock if the car hasn't been modified in some way from OEM design.' How do you think this answer helps anyone?
If your point is that no problems exist as long as one has a 100% stock/original/oem and - why not - matching numbers car then even if true it may have slipped your mind that 99.9% of the 2018 midyears are not that kind. Age does things to cars, as to people ...
It's just not fair the way you sequence your 'answers'. In this thread , none of them were actually answers to anything except trying to make the point that vapour lock and percolation are different things, and that they don't exist in this perfect Corvette world anyway except due to the stupidity or imagination of those who own the car. You write 'Never, ever heard or seen a midyear Corvette with vapor lock if the car hasn't been modified in some way from OEM design.' How do you think this answer helps anyone?
If your point is that no problems exist as long as one has a 100% stock/original/oem and - why not - matching numbers car then even if true it may have slipped your mind that 99.9% of the 2018 midyears are not that kind. Age does things to cars, as to people ...
07-23-2018, 07:38 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
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Frankie the Fink (07-23-2018)
07-23-2018, 08:07 AM
#46
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Well, you win a prize for one thing. I've said many times that people are confusing perc with vapor lock. Sometimes even in the same, single posting. But you didn't pick up the part about it's been a problem for decades down on the car lot/naval base.
Vapor lock didn't/doesn't exist? Of course it does/did. My own old cars sometimes perc a little. Not a problem to me if/when it happens. Just hold the gas down and hit the key and away you go. Gasoline has been seeping out of hot carburetors since carburetors were invented as they were not designed to be hermetically sealed. Much ado about nothing. Never vapor locked. Don't know anyone that has had that problem. Perc? Plugged fuel systems? OUt of gas? Faulty ignition? Yep! All the above and more and all suspect to being vapor lock.
My issue here with the statement the problem was wide spread years ago and in all my years of tinkering, conversing and reading about the subject, it has been a very minute problem in the big picture on cars built in the '50's and '60's.
Thus my example of the police/taxis that went out the plant doors back in that era without any electric fuel pump aid to the fuel supply except for the one exception I noted. And the fact that Detroit did exhaustive hot weather testing in Arizona. One of the areas mentioned here. The link I posted about the person that thought he was a victim of vapor lock that found out he wasn't. The example of the flat head Ford V-8 that people thought was vapor lock but in fact, was worn engine components. That isn't fair?
I don't know what is fair but I do know there is an investment opportunity here for someone to buy a sheet of 1/8" plywood and start cutting out carburetor spacers if this hysteria continues and sell them for a handsome profit. It won't stop vapor lock but it will probably help perc somewhat even though a backfire through the carburetor might light off a gasoline soaked piece of wood and burn your car to the ground.
Your "fuel pump" thread has some related comments in it along with the usual irrational stuff.
07-23-2018, 08:11 AM
#47
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You have been on this forum a number of years less than me and you have twice as many posts
And you didn't mention about whether or not you pulled the clothes pins off the trade in's and sold them as A-1 used cars.
Last edited by MikeM; 07-23-2018 at 08:14 AM.
07-23-2018, 08:56 AM
#48
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What we have here is hydrant pissing for lack of a better term to come to mind quickly enough. Mike is likely right that much passed off as vapor lock is some other related or unrelated problem. Frank is right that vapor lock still happens, likely more often in Arizona or Florida than in New England where I am. I have not experienced vapor lock in 20 years with 8 cars yet in the hot weather I tend to use my air conditioned cars, all of which but one have factory fuel return lines. The one that doesn't (a 250 HP 327) doesn't much care about hot weather.
I think its reasonable to conclude that vapor lock was a real condition in old cars used in very hot weather, especially with poorly routed fuel lines or other modifications that exacerbate the condition; that today a good portion of running problems ascribed to vapor lock are something else, and finally that vapor lock happens to some of us, usually in very hot weather with a tank of alcohol laced fuel. If we were all still driving around in 54 Cadillacs or Plymouths as daily drivers we would hear far more about vapor lock.
Dan
07-23-2018, 09:26 AM
#49
Melting Slicks
I don't doubt that at all. The various AAA motoring guides and old time car manuals didn't mention vapor lock as a fable but a road hazard, it was a real condition, as was flat tires and overheating, things we don't see much of anymore, kind of like polio and tuberculosis.
What we have here is hydrant pissing for lack of a better term to come to mind quickly enough. Mike is likely right that much passed off as vapor lock is some other related or unrelated problem. Frank is right that vapor lock still happens, likely more often in Arizona or Florida than in New England where I am. I have not experienced vapor lock in 20 years with 8 cars yet in the hot weather I tend to use my air conditioned cars, all of which but one have factory fuel return lines. The one that doesn't (a 250 HP 327) doesn't much care about hot weather.
I think its reasonable to conclude that vapor lock was a real condition in old cars used in very hot weather, especially with poorly routed fuel lines or other modifications that exacerbate the condition; that today a good portion of running problems ascribed to vapor lock are something else, and finally that vapor lock happens to some of us, usually in very hot weather with a tank of alcohol laced fuel. If we were all still driving around in 54 Cadillacs or Plymouths as daily drivers we would hear far more about vapor lock.
Dan
What we have here is hydrant pissing for lack of a better term to come to mind quickly enough. Mike is likely right that much passed off as vapor lock is some other related or unrelated problem. Frank is right that vapor lock still happens, likely more often in Arizona or Florida than in New England where I am. I have not experienced vapor lock in 20 years with 8 cars yet in the hot weather I tend to use my air conditioned cars, all of which but one have factory fuel return lines. The one that doesn't (a 250 HP 327) doesn't much care about hot weather.
I think its reasonable to conclude that vapor lock was a real condition in old cars used in very hot weather, especially with poorly routed fuel lines or other modifications that exacerbate the condition; that today a good portion of running problems ascribed to vapor lock are something else, and finally that vapor lock happens to some of us, usually in very hot weather with a tank of alcohol laced fuel. If we were all still driving around in 54 Cadillacs or Plymouths as daily drivers we would hear far more about vapor lock.
Dan
Last edited by alexandervdr; 07-23-2018 at 09:27 AM.
07-23-2018, 09:33 AM
#50
Team Owner
07-23-2018, 10:46 AM
#51
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Factoid, pleased you had no problems and enjoyed the hot Texas day. 100°F here in Houston today, and I had my 61 with 2 x 4 WCFBs running around at mid-day. It is all stock as GM designed except I replaced the 283 with a DART 400 block and DART heads. I have run the car over 50 years and 200,000 miles and periodically had the hot start problems.
About 15 years ago I made set of WCFB base-manifold gaskets from 3/16 oak cabinet plywood to insulate the heat from the WCFBs. It starts when hot like it was fuel injected. People are always amazed how easily it starts after even a short 2-5 minute shutdown.
If you have the 2 x 4s off sometime, might want to consider the wooden gasket/insulator; there are no polymer after market spacers for WCFBs.
Joe
About 15 years ago I made set of WCFB base-manifold gaskets from 3/16 oak cabinet plywood to insulate the heat from the WCFBs. It starts when hot like it was fuel injected. People are always amazed how easily it starts after even a short 2-5 minute shutdown.
If you have the 2 x 4s off sometime, might want to consider the wooden gasket/insulator; there are no polymer after market spacers for WCFBs.
Joe
I’m actually pulling the Edelbrock C26 and dual Thunder 500 AFBs off the car as I type this. That’s right, I’m a multitasker. They are choking airflow and overfueling at anything other than cruise. They were originally tuned by Edelbrock as part of the crate engine set up the PO purchased and are more for show than go. I have a performer eps and 625 cfm street demon composite to go in their place. I’ve had great success with the street demon in the past, so we shall see on this set up.
So, what I’ve learned or had reaffirmed from this thread so far:
1. Percolation and vapor lock are two different things (knew that).
2. The best way to deal with true vapor lock is with an electric fuel pump near the tank (makes sense).
3. Percolation can be solved with a spacer (knew that, but not the plywood trick).
4. Vapor lock experiences vary widely from never to sometimes (that’s new).
5. People on forums love to debate (love that).
6. Some people just can’t get along (knew that).
7. Some people have keyboard muscles (yep).
8. Some people are very reasonable and helpful (love that).
Thanks all!
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alexandervdr (07-24-2018)
07-23-2018, 12:02 PM
#52
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Thanks, Joe, we had a blast!
I’m actually pulling the Edelbrock C26 and dual Thunder 500 AFBs off the car as I type this. That’s right, I’m a multitasker. They are choking airflow and overfueling at anything other than cruise. They were originally tuned by Edelbrock as part of the crate engine set up the PO purchased and are more for show than go. I have a performer eps and 625 cfm street demon composite to go in their place. I’ve had great success with the street demon in the past, so we shall see on this set up.
So, what I’ve learned or had reaffirmed from this thread so far:
1. Percolation and vapor lock are two different things (knew that).
2. The best way to deal with true vapor lock is with an electric fuel pump near the tank (makes sense).
3. Percolation can be solved with a spacer (knew that, but not the plywood trick).
4. Vapor lock experiences vary widely from never to sometimes (that’s new).
5. People on forums love to debate (love that).
6. Some people just can’t get along (knew that).
7. Some people have keyboard muscles (yep).
8. Some people are very reasonable and helpful (love that).
Thanks all!
All true. Let’s stop here.
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