C2 In praise of the 250hp 327 - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Notices
C1 & C2 Corvettes General C1 Corvette & C2 Corvette Discussion, Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Project Builds, Restorations

[C2] In praise of the 250hp 327

Old 12-07-2018, 09:24 PM
  #1  
c2vette64
CF Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
c2vette64's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 93
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default In praise of the 250hp 327

I don't post here much at all (obviously), mainly look for information from the many knowledgeable contributors whenever I need an answer.

That said, I wanted to make a comment on my 1964 StingRay with the 250 hp base engine.

I originally bought this car a couple of decades back with the idea of "hotrodding" it for want of a better term. However after looking closely at it I discovered that other than paint and the differential it was a very original numbers matching car. I completely refreshed it with new repro parts where necessary for safety and driveability, but saved the original alternator, water pump, and fuel pump.

Now many years later I will say that I absolutely love this 250 hp engine. I can literally idle off the line in 3rd gear, don't need to downshift from 4th to pass at highway speeds, it starts within 2 or 3 seconds even after sitting a couple of weeks, gets decent gas mileage, and comfortably cruises at part throttle at 80-85 mph on the local toll road where legal.

I am not out to win any drag races, so for me this is just a perfect engine. Looking at the dyno curves the lower rpm torque numbers compare very favorably with the higher hp engines, so no wonder it is so pleasant to drive.

Parting comment is that I attended a "Cars and Coffee" at a local racetrack where it was mostly newer Corvettes and expensive Ferraris and Porsches, etc. Pleasantly surprised that my old Corvette was the cover car for the event Facebook page after that weekend (go figure). https://www.facebook.com/events/336669843796020/


cheers y'all

Last edited by c2vette64; 12-07-2018 at 10:02 PM.
c2vette64 is offline  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:37 PM
  #2  
Bluestripe67
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Bluestripe67's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Chevy Chase MD.
Posts: 11,157
Thanked 481 Times in 459 Posts
Default

You are doing it right. Appreciate everything about the car along with proper maintenance and you will get the smiles as you drive the miles. Dennis
Bluestripe67 is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Bluestripe67 For This Useful Post:
c2vette64 (12-07-2018)
Old 12-07-2018, 09:46 PM
  #3  
Railroadman
CF Senior Member
 
Railroadman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 22,385
Thanked 443 Times in 287 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-Ď19

Default

Glad to hear that! My '64 is a project car and not yet on the road. But it's a 250hp 4-speed and I'm really looking forward to enjoying it. A lifetime ago I drove a girl friend's 250 and it was a fun car. I have no quarrel with those who want more beef, (and I have a 300hp C-4 which steps out nicely) but I think the '64 will bring plenty of smiles when I get it on the road.

What rear are you running in yours?
Railroadman is offline  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:51 PM
  #4  
c2vette64
CF Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
c2vette64's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 93
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It is a 3:37 as I remember (or close if that is not the exact ratio) It is a later version (posi) and I recollect that I read the 63/64 differentials had a design problem that often caused failures so suspect that is why it was replaced at some point.
The original option was also positraction so that is not why it was "upgraded".

Last edited by c2vette64; 12-07-2018 at 10:10 PM.
c2vette64 is offline  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:53 PM
  #5  
Rob_64-365
CF Senior Member
 
Rob_64-365's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: New Baltimore Michigan
Posts: 602
Thanked 78 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Sounds like a nice car that you take care of well. The only thing I would recommend on any car with a single master cylinder is changing to a dual master cyllinder. After seeing how easily my brake lines fell apart when I started doing the disk conversion on my 64, it put a scare in me, just knowing at any time, had I lost one brake line, I would have had no brakes, besides the emergency brake.
Rob_64-365 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rob_64-365 For This Useful Post:
c2vette64 (12-07-2018)
Old 12-07-2018, 10:00 PM
  #6  
c2vette64
CF Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
c2vette64's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 93
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

That is on my "to do" list and is kind of always in the back of my mind. I replaced the lines with new as well as the M/C but that is certainly a good recommendation especially since I drive the car quite often.

I worked a very short time for a logging company and remember being shocked that the huge log skidders had single master cylinders. Sure enough one had a brake failure and ended up with the driver jumping out and the skidder in a ravine with major damage.
c2vette64 is offline  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:33 PM
  #7  
Frankie the Fink
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Frankie the Fink's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: Orlando Metro Area Florida
Posts: 46,141
Thanked 3,051 Times in 2,462 Posts
Default

My 63 split window is a base motor 250hp 327ci with a Muncie 4-speed; the advance curve is tweaked to the max....its a peppy, fun motor with superb street manners; I have no big complaints about it and if torque is your measurement it has nearly that of the 300hp engine....

My only mentionable issue is that it could sound a bit more aggressive; however, I'm not swapping original parts off the car just to make that happen...

Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 12-07-2018 at 10:33 PM.
Frankie the Fink is online now  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:35 AM
  #8  
R66
CF Senior Member
 
R66's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2015
Location: Really Central IL Illinois
Posts: 1,754
Thanked 269 Times in 233 Posts
Default

So, R66 base motor (300/327) is perfect for us. Don't need the RUMP, RUMP, RUMP as my wife has plenty. She says I made it that way, but I blame the kids.

Plenty of performance to propel the lightweight C2 on the street.

Drive it and love it.

Ron

R66 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to R66 For This Useful Post:
Kerrmudgeon (12-09-2018)
Old 12-08-2018, 01:13 AM
  #9  
Railroadman
CF Senior Member
 
Railroadman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 22,385
Thanked 443 Times in 287 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-Ď19

Default

Originally Posted by c2vette64 View Post
It is a 3:37 as I remember (or close if that is not the exact ratio) .
That would be 3:36, which is what mine has. I too have heard the early rears were not that stout, but I don't plan on flogging mine too bad. (Altho you know the saying - "An on-ramp is a terrible thing to waste!" )
Railroadman is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:02 AM
  #10  
Greg
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Greg's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 1999
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 3,786
Thanked 296 Times in 203 Posts
Default

Putting this in the correct context of time, 250 horsepower was no slouch by any means in 1964.
The all new Mustang V-8 was rated at 200 HP, Barracuda's V-8 advertised 180 horsepower and even GM's flagship Cadillac came in at a rating of 325 horsepower. Of course all offered higher HP versions, this was each brand's base model. So that little Sting Ray coming in at 250 HP for its entry level offering would have been a considerable bragging right all on its own.

Last edited by Greg; 12-08-2018 at 05:03 AM.
Greg is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:29 AM
  #11  
tbarb
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: May 2014
Posts: 2,246
Thanked 236 Times in 221 Posts
Default

My cars are 300hp which uses the same camshaft as the 250hp engine and while I like the SHP engines I relish the low idle and smooth manners of the low hp engines.

I consider it a challenge to get them to run at low idle rpm's like the book spec but take off like a rocket if you stomp the throttle.

A good tune has different meanings with each engine combo IMO.

tbarb is online now  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:51 AM
  #12  
Johnbar
CF Senior Member
 
Johnbar's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2012
Location: Northboro Massachusetts
Posts: 325
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
Default

I also have a ‘64 327 w/250hp. I love the car. I did change over to a dual master cylinder, like an insurance policy. Enjoy your car, lot of fun!
Johnbar is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:58 AM
  #13  
FLYNAVY30
CF Senior Member
 
FLYNAVY30's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2002
Location: Norfolk VA
Posts: 3,768
Thanked 170 Times in 104 Posts
Default

I'm quite jealous!! My wife and I purchased a house up in Lakeway for when I retire from the Navy and we move back to the area. I remember when the Austin Cars & Coffee used to be around the corner at The Oasis a few years back. I didn't realize they had moved it to COTA.

Apologies for going off topic....I get excited when I see other C2 drivers from Austin! 4 more years......
FLYNAVY30 is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:25 AM
  #14  
Nowhere Man
CF Senior Member
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
Posts: 33,709
Thanked 1,438 Times in 1,308 Posts
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
Default

while driving my BB Chevelle, dads 427 vette, and his L79 is fun, there is something about his base 300 67 that is so relaxing and enjoying that is something you just need to experience. I don't call it the sewing machine for nothing
Nowhere Man is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:42 AM
  #15  
SWCDuke
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: May 2000
Posts: 10,007
Thanked 466 Times in 324 Posts
Default

You've figured out that low end torque/power is the most useable engine output behavior for the way most of us drive these cars, today. The 327/250 produces about the same peak torque as SHP/FI engines, but it's all there at only 2800 instead of 3600-4000. I try to make this point with those who want a "400 HP 327". Yes it can be done, but it will be a dog down low, consume a lot of fuel, and be a cantankerous beast around town, but will sound great idling if that's your prime objective, which appears to sometimes be the case.

I never understood why Chevrolet built this configuration. It's basically a stroked 283/230, so Taylor's Rule says it should make about the same peak power as the former, but it does have slightly higher compression. It got even weirder when Chevrolet built it with big port heads in '65 instead of the previous 283 type heads, but kept the small port inlet manifold and 400 CFM WCFB. And it likely didn't cost more to build than a 327/300, but back in that era GM played the option game. It made sense that Chevrolet made the 327/300 the base Corvette engine for '66.

Because of the high VE at low revs, GM equipped it with a very conservative spark advance map. For '63 the 4 degree initial timing recommendation and short/lazy 24 @ 4600 centrifugal yielded total WOT advance of only 28, which is well below the 36-40 optimum. Try advancing the initial to a couple of degrees below the detonation limit. You should feel a SOTP improvement. I think the map changed a bit in '64 or '65, but don't recall the data off hand.

Beyond this modifying the centrifugal to yield about 30 @ 3500 with 6-10 initial should noticeably improve output across the entire useable rev range.

Duke
SWCDuke is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SWCDuke For This Useful Post:
c2vette64 (12-14-2018), ghostrider20 (12-09-2018)
Old 12-08-2018, 11:50 AM
  #16  
kenba
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
kenba's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2007
Location: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
Posts: 2,636
Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts
Default

That's what we called them in the day sewing machine motors because they of how quietly they ran making about the same noise is my Mom's old Singer.
kenba is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:54 AM
  #17  
Nowhere Man
CF Senior Member
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
Posts: 33,709
Thanked 1,438 Times in 1,308 Posts
2015 C2 of Year Finalist
Default

Originally Posted by kenba View Post
That's what we called them in the day sewing machine motors because they of how quietly they ran making about the same noise is my Mom's old Singer.
and reliable as one too. great around town and even though the back roads and hills.
Nowhere Man is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:59 AM
  #18  
Black 03 Z06
CF Senior Member
 
Black 03 Z06's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Algonquin Highlands Ontario
Posts: 5,559
Thanked 287 Times in 257 Posts
Default

Perhaps a bit off topic for this particular thread but a very good friend had a 327/250 horsepower motor with a 4 speed in a 1963 Impala. The car was the Canadian champion for F/Stock when it was owned by Park Lane Motors in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada. The motor was built by Dynamic Engines in Detroit and was NHRA legal.

That car out and out hauled butt and yet since it was his only car at the time worked reasonably well on the street. Great motor with a lot of capabilities.

Your Vette sounds like a really nice car, enjoy it.
Black 03 Z06 is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:08 PM
  #19  
kenba
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
kenba's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2007
Location: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
Posts: 2,636
Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
and reliable as one too. great around town and even though the back roads and hills.
You are right. We had a lot of troubles with the HP small blocks & big blocks but the low HP engines never let one down they kept going on.
kenba is offline  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:08 PM
  #20  
emdoller
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2010
Location: El Dorado Hills CA
Posts: 1,633
Thanked 175 Times in 141 Posts
Default

I have two camaroís with that engine and they are bulletproof. Great engines!

My 67 has the L79 and itís the best engine Iíve ever owned. Take it over a BB any day of the week... just wish the L79 option had the BB hood from the factory.

Enjoy your car!!

Ed
emdoller is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: [C2] In praise of the 250hp 327


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: