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[C2] 2 holes on steering arm? Can I move it?

Old 12-09-2018, 09:49 PM
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1Cerberus4u
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Default 2 holes on steering arm? Can I move it?

So, I'm pretty far along on the conversion to power steering and have put about everything onto the car with the exception of the pump itself which I will do later this week.

When putting the steering assembly back onto the car, I noticed that the tie rods could go into two different holes... While it was in the rear one, which would provide more leverage, but a slower speed steering, what happens if i put the tie rods in the hole closer to the hub?

Clearly the steering should be quicker, but how much quicker? Was there a reason to have these 2 hole options?

I'm thinking that with power steering that the increase in mechanical effort (less leverage by being closer to the hub axis) will be compensated for?

Good idea or bad idea?



Thanks!

Last edited by 1Cerberus4u; 12-09-2018 at 09:51 PM. Reason: add picture
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:55 PM
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elwood13
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I’m not completely sure but I think I read the one hole was for power and the other for manual. I know looking at some later 70’s when only power steering was available, one of the holes is plugged. When I get home I will see what my manuals show.
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:59 PM
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Something makes me think the two holes permit different steering ratios to be selected?
Bill.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by elwood13 View Post
Iím not completely sure but I think I read the one hole was for power and the other for manual. I know looking at some later 70ís when only power steering was available, one of the holes is plugged. When I get home I will see what my manuals show.
You are correct.

Larry
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:08 PM
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Power steering cars should be using the hole closest to the center of the wheel (quicker steering).as you suggest.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:14 PM
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How much quicker is the ratio? and for the record,what is the stock, manual ratio?
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:26 PM
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elwood13
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From a chitons manual 63-76.




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Old 12-09-2018, 10:36 PM
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Typical manual.... first it says you can do it, then it says you can't..... So the outer how is 19:1 and the inner is 17:1? Long way from the Borgsen 12:1, but I'll take it!

to confirm, though, its says one cannot move to the faster ratio with power steering? or can we?
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:42 PM
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elwood13
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I was wondering the same thing. As far as power steering, I wonder if it was because of the factory ram. I haven’t read the borgeson instructions so I don’t know if they recommend a certain hole.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Cerberus4u View Post
Typical manual.... first it says you can do it, then it says you can't..... So the outer how is 19:1 and the inner is 17:1? Long way from the Borgsen 12:1, but I'll take it!

to confirm, though, its says one cannot move to the faster ratio with power steering? or can we?
You shouldn't move a power steering car to the rear hole because it can overdrive the ram cylinder at full lock (according to a post by JohnZ a few years ago.) You can definitely do vice versa, and should for that same reason if you add power steering.
You're misreading the ratio from the article in post 7. The differences you stated are from earlier models to later models. A C2 would be 19.6 in one hole and 20.2 in the other. It is what it is though, if you want faster, Borgeson is the likely option. In my experience, it's plenty fast enough without going to Borgeson, even though I do like the Borgeson option due to the simplicity of fittings and hoses.

Last edited by 65GGvert; 12-09-2018 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:14 PM
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65GGvert, when I put the borgeson unit on would I use the rear hole since my car was a manual steer?
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:21 PM
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Thanks 65! (and Chris!) Fronty hole it is!
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 65GGvert View Post
You shouldn't move a power steering car to the rear hole because it can overdrive the ram cylinder at full lock (according to a post by JohnZ a few years ago.) You can definitely do vice versa, and should for that same reason if you add power steering.
You're misreading the ratio from the article in post 7. The differences you stated are from earlier models to later models. A C2 would be 19.6 in one hole and 20.2 in the other. It is what it is though, if you want faster, Borgeson is the likely option. In my experience, it's plenty fast enough without going to Borgeson, even though I do like the Borgeson option due to the simplicity of fittings and hoses.
I don't believe that is entirely correct. The way I read it the early C2 slow ratio was 20.2 but in later cars it became 19.6. The fast ratio in early cars was 17.1 and it became 17.6 on later cars. I also thought PS cars were al factory set for the faster steering ratio. Manual steering cars were factory set on the slow steering ratio but the owner could move it to the faster ratio at their option.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
I don't believe that is entirely correct. The way I read it the early C2 slow ratio was 20.2 but in later cars it became 19.6. The fast ratio in early cars was 17.1 and it became 17.6 on later cars. I also thought PS cars were al factory set for the faster steering ratio. Manual steering cars were factory set on the slow steering ratio but the owner could move it to the faster ratio at their option.
That's not the way I read the ratio difference, but your understanding of the holes is correct. You can have manual in either hole, and power steering should only be in front hole.

I don't see anything on spec sheet except steering GEAR ratio 16.1:1 and

Steering wheel turns lock to lock:Standard3.4– Power2.9

Last edited by 65GGvert; 12-10-2018 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:28 AM
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With the Borgeson power steering set up, you can use either hole as it is a true power steering set up not a power assisted set up with a ram like the stock Corvette system. Given the Borgeson set up is a 12.7:1, you may find the rear hole a better option as some people find the front hole to be twitchy. Fortunately, changing it is easy with the longest part being resetting toe.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:41 AM
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wow, your up early for Texas time!
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by elwood13 View Post
65GGvert, when I put the borgeson unit on would I use the rear hole since my car was a manual steer?
Not necessarily, it's your choice. Doesn't make any difference except steering "quickness" or feel. There's no ram to over drive.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Cerberus4u View Post
wow, your up early for Texas time!
Iím in NYC on a consulting gig. Itís cold.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
I also thought PS cars were al factory set for the faster steering ratio. Manual steering cars were factory set on the slow steering ratio but the owner could move it to the faster ratio at their option.
That's correct. As I've noted before, when the factory installed power steering, they also installed a large aluminum plug in the rearmost tie rod end hole in the steering arm and peened it in place so it wasn't possible to use that hole. That was done to protect the seals on the power ram, which could be damaged by overtravel when using the rearward hole. See photo below.




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Old 12-11-2018, 03:53 PM
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I put Power Steering on my 66 this spring and moved to the PS 'quicker' hole before have the front end aligned. I find the steering 'too' quick now, less forgiving. Next time I align the front end, I'm putting it back. I may add offset upper control arm shafts in to gain more caster. Should have done that when I did the conversion...
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