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63 SWC RestoMod Build - Soliciting Helpful Direction & Advice
After 4 years on the fence, I finally did it. Bought my dream car to build a resto-mod with. Rust-free Arizona car. Birdcage perfect. As the title says, 63 SWC. Originally red/red 340 hp 4 speed car. Discovered some good things and bad things after delivery and inspection. The car was complete but in a stage of disassembly and so found some things we thought were missing and found some things that were missing or worthless that we thought would be there or good. I’ve quickly learned this journey is not for the faint of heart of light of wallet. The car was delivered two weeks ago and has already been completed disassembled, body off chassis, interior gutted down to the Z-bar, and the real cost of doing it right is being realized. I don’t have the time, resources, space, or knowledge to begin to do justice to this build but I have someone who does and does it well. He’s doing the work, providing some advice and options, and I do the internet research and say “what about doing this step like this?” I initially thought I would have the paint and interior done and just drive it with the non-correct 65 327 in it for a while. This is a slippery slope of a project and I’ve found it’s hard to determine where to draw the line and compromise if at all on any stage in the process.
I’m committed to building a car that in each phase is as unique and professional as possible without much or any compromise. I’m very particular and detail focused and so I think about and consider options for every single detail of this build, from the tail light colors (dual red each side versus red with white backup lights), emblems on the fenders or not, bumpers tucked to the body at different distances, etc. This is going to be a higher-end build but I am going to drive it. This is not a car that will be sitting in my garage or to trailer to car shows. It’s not a car being built to sell at BJ or some other auction with zero miles on it. I plan on driving it on weekends during the spring to fall months. Therefore, I want all the creature comforts of a 2019 model car in this 63. I realize that now means a new chassis, engine, ECU, transmission, interior, air conditioning, gauges, etc. There won’t be much left of the original car I know. I’m aware that as soon as the key turns over and it rolls out the shop, it’s already dated as the next latest and greatest build is in process behind it. That’s OK. If I build it right, it should show and drive well for many years and since it will be black, they can use it as a coffin to bury me in.
That’s where all of you experienced guys come in. I would really be interested in those specifically that have built one or more C2 resto-mods to comment on the things you would do it you had an unlimited budget. I don’t have an unlimited budget (who does) but I do have flexibility in my funds allocation for this car to do what is necessary on all the little and big things.
The car is completely disassembled and going on the rotisserie and to the walnut shell blaster this week to clean up all fiberglass under the body and inside the interior. Ordered a new one-piece front clip to mitigate the risk of cracking / flex on the original 12 piece front clip with torque from the new engine. All new tinted glass, wing window regulators, power window regulators, factory weather stripping, emblems, Detroit Speed headlight motors and windshield motors, doing a smooth firewall (covering heater core and other indentions and hiding the DS wiper motor inside), all new light and wiring harnesses with LED conversion, etc. Missing a few pieces of rear window trim and so considering just ordering the full Keen set new and selling the original pieces for the rear window. All other trim is there and in good shape but will all be re-polished. Bumper brackets will be modified and tucked into the body some then all re-chromed.
Going with black Glasurit paint with red interior. Thinking about the new 3” drop version of the Art Morrison GT Sport chassis with a LT5 create engine from GM (755 hp).
I’m open for input and advice on chassis and engines but honestly every little thing that you can think of to make the car unique, different and finished at a very high quality for something that is going to get driven and enjoyed. As trivial as this sounds, I'm trying to decide if I do factory chrome door handles or if there is some custom / unique door handles someone has seen or would recommend. Not doing emblems on the front fenders and filling in the radio antenna hole in the quarter panel. Doing side exhaust and so using a smooth lower valance i in the rear.
Will post some build pics soon but it’s not too exciting now….just your basic 56 year old car in 1,000 pieces.
Really would appreciate any thoughts or advice for you experienced guys out there! Thanks in advance.
This is forum member mark6669's 63 SWC in Viper Red with an LS-3 and IIRC a Jameson chassis and tan upholstery...its jaw-dropping...
Here is another one built by my good friend and forum member Mike Coletta for my neighbor Ken Fisher; it was recently driven on the Hot Rod Power Tour (so much for not being able to drive them I guess) - these should give you some ideas I bet:
You may catch a Bitchin Rides rerun where they did a 63. Lots of good ideas on that one, and they go into some detail about the decisions they made.
The rules I would go by would be to limit the exterior mods, and go all out on the interior. Aftermarket frame and LT5 are good calls. Resist the urge to go with hoops larger than 18".
I bought my 63 with the same intentions of modding it, but it turned out to be far more original than I thought so I wound up doing a restoration on it. Love the thing but it sure would've been nice to have to have a stellar driver too.
You may catch a Bitchin Rides rerun where they did a 63. Lots of good ideas on that one, and they go into some detail about the decisions they made.
The rules I would go by would be to limit the exterior mods, and go all out on the interior. Aftermarket frame and LT5 are good calls.
Keep us posted please.
As simple as this is, it's great advice. That's exactly what I was thinking. I love the creativity of many of these builds guys are doing, with flush windows (no trim), blacked out where chrome was, or carbon fiber bumpers, etc. However, for me I'm going to go with all factory brightwork on the exterior, going to tuck the bumpers in somewhat but all chrome. Going with factory sidepipes like the once on Mike Colletta's beautiful silver build Frank posted. I think you've helped me decide to go with the factory chrome door handles!
I do plan on going all out in the interior. Bright lipstick red everywhere. The car will have a mini-tub in it as I'm going to tuck some 325s under it.
I'm trying to decide what to do on the front grill. Since I am going exterior black with chrome, the natural decision is a new factory silver grill but I was considering painting this gloss black, same as body. Not sure anyone has seen a black car with chrome front bumpers and a black painted grill but if so could you please post that and opine on this.
Frank - Love both cars you posted. That red/ tan is beautiful and the silver / red was my second color choice after black/red so really like that look. Both cars are very tastefully build. It's amazing that Mike's silver car was 6 years ago.
Sidepipe Seeker - Yes sir I am leaning toward the 6 speed. Just looking into what it might require from a tunnel modification perspective. And you might appreciate it given your username that I'm using sidepipes! I was going that direction anyway but with the Art Morrison low new GT Sport chassis, it's required due to lack of clearance for traditional exhaust.
Awesome. We are all looking forward to this build, and learning more about the challenges, and the joy of doing your own resto-mod.
Keep us posted please sir, and let us know what we can do to help.
Regarding your question about the grill, have you considered black chrome plating the grill. It is expensive (what chrome plating isn't) but the look is awesome
Awesome. We are all looking forward to this build, and learning more about the challenges, and the joy of doing your own resto-mod.
Keep us posted please sir, and let us know what we can do to help.
Regarding your question about the grill, have you considered black chrome plating the grill. It is expensive (what chrome plating isn't) but the look is awesome
Black chrome is a GREAT idea on the front grill. I’ll look into that. Thank you for that thought.
Terrific vision and completely identify with the creative aspect of "making it yours". I thoroughly enjoyed stepping thru a similar process with my '66 last year, but nowhere near as radical as you intend. I love the vision, but you started off saying you'll be doing a one-piece front end on this VERY valuable classic C2. I personally would not dishonor any C2 much less a '63 SWC with anything less than a press molded Sermershiem front end. If/when I see your magnificent car someday and feel inside the underside of your composite parts and feel the rough surface of an open molded part... I'd immediately think "what the heck?". Here sits probably a 150-200k build and he went cheap on the front end?!? I even went so far to design/make a press die to form the radius of the front header bar so when **** retentives like me stick their hand under the front hood opening and feel for stamped holes you won't immediately feel a sharp edge which telegraphs.... aha... wrecked/replacement front end. Even if you were going to remove the front fenders and add flared fenders, I'd order a fixture assembled front end from Sermershiem without fenders. And I'll loan you my header bar dimpling fixture so no one will know it's not an original header. Obviously, your car, but to start a build of this end value and install the least expensive/quality front end would cheapen the final product. You asked for opinions.
If it was my build I'd also look at selecting top of the line suspension components that would bolt to your existing frame. Mainly because I wouldn't want to worry about storing the original frame. But that's just me.
Exciting build and look forward to following. Best wishes!!
Terrific vision and completely identify with the creative aspect of "making it yours". I thoroughly enjoyed stepping thru a similar process with my '66 last year, but nowhere near as radical as you intend. I love the vision, but you started off saying you'll be doing a one-piece front end on this VERY valuable classic C2. I personally would not dishonor any C2 much less a '63 SWC with anything less than a press molded Sermershiem front end. If/when I see your magnificent car someday and feel inside the underside of your composite parts and feel the rough surface of an open molded part... I'd immediately think "what the heck?". Here sits probably a 150-200k build and he went cheap on the front end?!? I even went so far to design/make a press die to form the radius of the front header bar so when **** retentives like me stick their hand under the front hood opening and feel for stamped holes you won't immediately feel a sharp edge which telegraphs.... aha... wrecked/replacement front end. Even if you were going to remove the front fenders and add flared fenders, I'd order a fixture assembled front end from Sermershiem without fenders. And I'll loan you my header bar dimpling fixture so no one will know it's not an original header. Obviously, your car, but to start a build of this end value and install the least expensive/quality front end would cheapen the final product. You asked for opinions.
If it was my build I'd also look at selecting top of the line suspension components that would bolt to your existing frame. Mainly because I wouldn't want to worry about storing the original frame. But that's just me.
Exciting build and look forward to following. Best wishes!!
Thanks for the input! You caught me just in time before we ordered the one piece front end today. I'll definitely look into this. The thinking was a one piece would have more rigidity than the factory 12 piece front end with multiple bonding strip attachments. One front fender had some prior repairs made and so as opposed to re-work the front end I was selling the front end to my builder and getting a one-piece. He has another restomod with the one piece in the shop and I looked at it. Less points of failure seemed like a good idea to me. No flaring on the fenders...keeping the factory aspect ratios.
With respect to the suspension components and the frame, I thought about doing as you suggested initially but really wanted the tucked in and up wide rear wheel look that you can only get with a new chassis and a mini-tub system. The rear frame rails from 56 years ago limit tire width too much and won't facilitate the stance I'm looking for. The original factory 63 frame is perfect. Arizona car and so zero rust and the prior owner had it all rebuilt and freshly powdercoated. We will sell this and everything on the rolling chassis and the engine / transmission. Fresh 65 block 327 and four speed tranny as well as a nice factory 63 chassis if someone is interested. The AM chassis can be ordered with many options and we will upgrade and select some nice components or upgrades where we feel we want to be more unique / custom. Trying to future proof the car as best we can with the latest in technology to lengthen the time before upgrades. Hopefully the LT5 / 755 hp engine will serve its purpose for awhile before becoming outdated
As the owner of One, Builder of a Second and now starting the design/build of our Third C2
RestoMod....What's your TOTAL budget?
Well that's a very good and relevant question. Keeps moving up everyday. As you know, you can quickly marginalize everything, saying "that's only $100 for this and it's new and so order a new one" Today we just ordered $10K worth of these $50-200 type parts +/-. Art Morrison chassis and new 2019 LT5 / ZL1 755 hp engines don't come cheap. I'd love to be at $150K but that ain't happening! I'll spend what is needed to make me and you guys smile! I'd say budget is flexible and so everyone feel free to throw out your "bucket list:" or "wish I would have / could have done that" ideas and I'll consider all. Thanks!
My fixture assembled Sermershiem front end was beautiful and true with the hood surround like GM factory. I ordered my front end with the lower quarters loose to allow easier mating and assembly. I think that's the preferred by most experienced C2 body shops. If you are going stock fenders (not widened) your front end will come in beautiful. I had Lee Bumb send their stock steel header bar which is stamped like a '67 bar. I added the radius' with my fixture, returned to Lee Bumb (Sermershiem) to be used in my front end.
Totally understand in the frame. But that VIN stamped frame some day will be very valuable linked to your car.
BTW... if your body shop isn't familiiar with Sermershiem installs I'd be concerned about their C2 experience.
Sounds like you're well into the parts ordering game. Glad you went with a aftermarket Chassis.
Reads as your paying for Labor, typically a High End RestoMod C2 build if done correctly will have about 3,000 man hours of labor.
Combined with 150,000 to 200,000 in parts, not to mention the donor car.
BTW Baker, I'm 90% sure most of the C2 body cracking I've seen up around the headlight openings and maybe forward hood surround are the result of inadequate frame torsional stiffness. I'm sure since you're doing a modern chassis it will be much stiffer (not necessarily stronger... stiffer, less deflection) that the original frame. My car is "only" +500 torq. If I start to see signs of cracking I'll be adding carbon fiber doublers on the backside in the traditional areas of excessive flexing in the C2 front end. The Sermershiem front end is the same layup as stock, so a new front end may not be a big strength improvement over the original depending on the extend of repairs from old damage.
Whether you keep your original front end or go Sermershiem I'll be glad to provide some simple sketches of how I'll be adding carbon doublers to my car if needed. Composite doublers are typically added to composite structures where flexing is excessive. The carbon fabric is relatively cheap from Aircraft Spruce. If you want to discuss PM or we can talk. FYI, my background is designing composite aircraft.
Regardless, if this was my C2 project with that hp/tq, I'd definitely be adding carbon doublers to the inside structrure in known locations of excess flexing. Gonna be fun following. Cheers
If you have an unlimited budget you can do it all.
If not, skip the LS engine, six speed automatic, C4 frame and 17" wide tires.
Are you going for the "Wow factor" or modern conveniences like EFI fuel injection, 4L60E with overdrive, Rack & Pinion power steering, Wilwood disc brakes , electronic A/C etc?
Your budget will be the major factor and keeping the " stock 1963 look" or not. Good luck!
Photoshop can be a nice aid before you spend...these cars are of no use if they stay parked no matter how nice they are. So you hit some water, so what at least youre getting your moneys worth.
Everything ages period so may as well have some fun, otherwise a picture is cheaper .
I'm in the process of doing a 65 coupe, SRIII frame, modified LS3/525 and T56. Are you going with wider fenders/quarters? Your budget is dependent on labor costs really. Frame inc. C6/7 suspension 25k, brakes 3-5k, motor/trans 20-25k, electrical 3k, dash/gauges 2k, interior 25k, stereo 1-5k, rechroming bumpers and consider chroming the trim as well 3k, paint 15-20k, bodywork 5k, exhaust 3k, wheels/tires 4-10k, glass 1k, misc and 'why not' upgrades 7k.
Looking forward to seeing progress pics.
Doing my own work up till now. Paint and upholstery will be contracted out.
02-18-2019, 05:36 PM
63 SWC RestoMod Build - Soliciting Helpful Direction & Advice
