Dennis
Dennis
Hot start problem
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,334
Likes: 2,708
From: Close to DC
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,662
Likes: 2,344
From: Lake Minnetonka, Mn
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
Don't rule out a possible heat soak issue with your starter. "Rebuilt" can mean a thousand things. If I have a generator/alternator/starter issue, I always take it to a reputable electrical repair shop and have them do a complete analysis. It beats the randomness of securing a good unit from a parts house.
Last edited by Dan Hampton; Feb 24, 2019 at 05:33 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 161
Likes: 35
From: Headed to the next race track
I'll also add to do a load test on the battery during this condition. A marginal battery doesn't help.. I'm finding batteries don't seem to last very long any more.
I bought a battery load tester from harbor freight and test at every service now..
I bought a battery load tester from harbor freight and test at every service now..
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Michael S. Palmer
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,258
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From: Bowling Green, Kentucky
As pointed out, there are a number of things that might be causing or contributing to your problem.........so check them out.
I had the same problem with my 1967 327/350 HP car (L-79) and finally had my starter rebuilt with additional field coils inside the case to be more like a big block starter. It can be done by someone who knows starters and how to repair them. This adds a lot more torque to the starter under all conditions. Now my starter will spin the engine smoothly even if it is 110 F in the shade. Something to consider.
However, doing this will change the sound of the starter a bit. I sort of miss the old slower "Corvette starter" sound, but no longer have fear of hot restarts. My 11 to 1 compression engine now sounds more like the whine of a jet engine when I energize the starter.....or maybe like I have two 12 volt batteries working in series (24 volts)
Larry
I had the same problem with my 1967 327/350 HP car (L-79) and finally had my starter rebuilt with additional field coils inside the case to be more like a big block starter. It can be done by someone who knows starters and how to repair them. This adds a lot more torque to the starter under all conditions. Now my starter will spin the engine smoothly even if it is 110 F in the shade. Something to consider.
However, doing this will change the sound of the starter a bit. I sort of miss the old slower "Corvette starter" sound, but no longer have fear of hot restarts. My 11 to 1 compression engine now sounds more like the whine of a jet engine when I energize the starter.....or maybe like I have two 12 volt batteries working in series (24 volts)
Larry
Racer
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 258
Likes: 14
From: Santa Maria Ca.
I've had Chevy v-8s for 40-50 years, very common problem. I've had one car for about 30 years and the replacement starters work fine for several months and then start to turn slow when hot. I must change the starter in that car every year. Can't stop to get gas after getting off the freeway during commute.
People say that the heat expands the armature and it drags on the case windings, especially when the bushings get worn, I could see that.
I think I fixed it the last time I had it out about two months ago. I never thought about it before, but if it is metal expanding, it expands in all directions, including length.
I removed one fiber shim from the back of the starter; increased the end play of the shaft. Like I said, the starter has been working fine since then.
you might want to try that...
Good Luck.
Mike
People say that the heat expands the armature and it drags on the case windings, especially when the bushings get worn, I could see that.
I think I fixed it the last time I had it out about two months ago. I never thought about it before, but if it is metal expanding, it expands in all directions, including length.
I removed one fiber shim from the back of the starter; increased the end play of the shaft. Like I said, the starter has been working fine since then.
you might want to try that...
Good Luck.
Mike
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,468
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From: Camp Verde AZ
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
2017 C1 of Year Finalist
Check and clean your engine to frame ground,and battery cable ground very carefully. Paint under the ground cable can cause issues, as well as corrosion between the cable and the cable. Not to mention battery terminal to cable connection. Had this problem with teh '72 when i first got it. Started great cold, slow, slow cranking when hot, almost like it didn't want to even turn over.
Put it on the lift, removed the starter bolts one at a time, cleaned and de-greased them, and cleaned under the battery cable connection, and cleaned the cable end with steel wool, and decreased that connection bolt also..
Problem solved.
Its cheaper than running out and getting another starter.
Doug
Put it on the lift, removed the starter bolts one at a time, cleaned and de-greased them, and cleaned under the battery cable connection, and cleaned the cable end with steel wool, and decreased that connection bolt also..
Problem solved.
Its cheaper than running out and getting another starter.
Doug
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,468
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From: Camp Verde AZ
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
2017 C1 of Year Finalist
I always use high torque (longer) starter on anything that I don't care about originality. You can tell a high Tq starter because it has a 1" copper spacer between the power tab on top of the starter , and the solenoid connection. You can always swap starter noses if you can't find a high tq starter with your nose bolt mounting pattern.
Doug
Doug
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 221
From: Dalton, Ma
I have put cheap e-bay mini starters in all my muscle cars, HUGE difference when hot, Not sue if it's gear reduction thing, or a more HP thing or the fact it's smaller and further away from the exhaust thing...maybe all three.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 2,587
From: Del Boca Vista FL
Thanks for the input. It was the timing. It was so far advanced it was like an inch off the scale. I'm guessing the setting was around 30 degrees before. I used a light to set it at 8 degrees (with vacuum hose blocked) and now I just bump the starter and it's running. Lesson learned: Guessing at the timing or timing by ear does not work (for me).
Used to run 22 degrees initial advance on a 69 Dodge 340 with dual point distributor. Once in a while it would be touchy on hot start. But that was a mechanical advance, not vacuum.
Last edited by BADBIRDCAGE; Mar 9, 2019 at 04:00 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 2,587
From: Del Boca Vista FL
timing by ear is a temporary solution. Need to get that light on it for true accuracy and best performance. The way we determined 22 initial advance was best was by using a light.