Is Single Brake Line Master Much of a Safety Risk?
03-21-2019, 09:23 AM
#21
Melting Slicks
Lotsacubes,
As you've noticed there are widely varying opinions on your question. And I don't think there is a definitve answer. It's all about your personal level of comfort because you are the one who will live with the decision and any consequences that follow. When I faced that decsion I elected to convert my 1963 Corvette to a dual system for three reasons. First, I once owned a MG Midget with a hydraulic clutch. I was sitting in my driveway with the clutch depressed, transmission in reverse, waiting for an approaching car to pass before I backed out. Without warning, the car began to back up as smoothly as if I had released the clutch myself. The brakes stopped me and I subsequently discovered the leaking hydraulic line that released the clutch. That imprinted on me the knowledge that hydraulic systems do spring leaks sometimes. My second concern was that the brake line to the rear of the car was covered and could not be inspected without lifting the body. Given its age and the deterioration of other visible systems, that caused me concern. My final reason was that, at the time, I intended to autocross my car on occasions. Such events demand heavy braking and routinely leave little reaction time if the primary system fails. So, for all these reasons I switched to dual. .... I don't fault those who keep and maintain the original systems. It's their cars and their lives. If they are happy, I'm content with that.
As you've noticed there are widely varying opinions on your question. And I don't think there is a definitve answer. It's all about your personal level of comfort because you are the one who will live with the decision and any consequences that follow. When I faced that decsion I elected to convert my 1963 Corvette to a dual system for three reasons. First, I once owned a MG Midget with a hydraulic clutch. I was sitting in my driveway with the clutch depressed, transmission in reverse, waiting for an approaching car to pass before I backed out. Without warning, the car began to back up as smoothly as if I had released the clutch myself. The brakes stopped me and I subsequently discovered the leaking hydraulic line that released the clutch. That imprinted on me the knowledge that hydraulic systems do spring leaks sometimes. My second concern was that the brake line to the rear of the car was covered and could not be inspected without lifting the body. Given its age and the deterioration of other visible systems, that caused me concern. My final reason was that, at the time, I intended to autocross my car on occasions. Such events demand heavy braking and routinely leave little reaction time if the primary system fails. So, for all these reasons I switched to dual. .... I don't fault those who keep and maintain the original systems. It's their cars and their lives. If they are happy, I'm content with that.
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03-21-2019, 09:48 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
I've been waiting to see the "right" answer to this question. Reno finally posted it. Thanks.
03-21-2019, 10:41 AM
#24
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In this part of the country, you commonly see brake lines rusted/corroded from the outside in due to the effects of corrosion caused by chemicals to melt snow/ice on the roads. Very bad stuff and this brine they spread now is much worse than what was formerly used here.
03-21-2019, 11:19 AM
#25
Burning Brakes
I don't judge anyone for not converting, that's for sure, but I'm switching to a dual this season.
I haven't heard a compelling reason NOT to convert.
Driving for many, many years without a problem (as I have) is not a good argument to me though.
Just because I've never had a fatal accident doesn't mean I shouldn't wear a seatbelt everyday. Just because I've never had a brake failure doesn't mean it couldn't happen. There's another thread about dual cylinders where members have had failures and a tiny bit of insurance isn't a BAD idea.
It's true that these are generally unsafe cars but I feel decreasing the risk a little by a relatively easy modification can't hurt. Urgent? No. I've been driving all these years without it. It's just something I've thought about for a long time and I'm finally getting it done.
I don't blame anybody for not having it on there too do list.
I haven't heard a compelling reason NOT to convert.
Driving for many, many years without a problem (as I have) is not a good argument to me though.
Just because I've never had a fatal accident doesn't mean I shouldn't wear a seatbelt everyday. Just because I've never had a brake failure doesn't mean it couldn't happen. There's another thread about dual cylinders where members have had failures and a tiny bit of insurance isn't a BAD idea.
It's true that these are generally unsafe cars but I feel decreasing the risk a little by a relatively easy modification can't hurt. Urgent? No. I've been driving all these years without it. It's just something I've thought about for a long time and I'm finally getting it done.
I don't blame anybody for not having it on there too do list.
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03-21-2019, 11:20 AM
#26
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GTO Guy pretty well spelled it out. Single circuit brakes aren't much more of a safety risk than all the other 50+ year old death trap shortcomings. The solid steering column comes to mind right away.
And I'm about ready to mount a rear facing weapon of some kind to deal with Frankie's tailgaters.
And I'm about ready to mount a rear facing weapon of some kind to deal with Frankie's tailgaters.
03-21-2019, 11:23 AM
#27
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I'd feel safer riding shotgun with most of you guys in your single master Corvette than riding shotgun with 95% of the other drivers on the road in new, 'safe' cars equipped with all the electronic nonsense. Seriously.
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03-21-2019, 11:31 AM
#28
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C2 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Nail on the head. The steering column is something I think about all the time on my '61....never the brakes. Driving around with a solid steel bayonet aimed squarely at your chest will make you become a safer driver! Didn't worry about it so much in my '30's and '40's cars, because the angle was a bit 'safer' and the cars were a whole lot lower in performance ability. As Frank once said, if I get taken out in the '61, it'll be by the engine coming into the cabin or the column pinning me like a butterfly. It won't be due to a single master cylinder.
A good friend of mine was killed in his '57 by the steering column being pushed into his chest as the front his car crumpled.
A car had pulled out in front of him from a side road and there was no time to stop, no way to avoid the collision.
I think about this every time I drive my C1s. It weighs more heavily on my mind than the possibility of a brake failure.
Jim
03-21-2019, 11:42 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
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Nail on the head. The steering column is something I think about all the time on my '61....never the brakes. Driving around with a solid steel bayonet aimed squarely at your chest will make you become a safer driver! Didn't worry about it so much in my '30's and '40's cars, because the angle was a bit 'safer' and the cars were a whole lot lower in performance ability. As Frank once said, if I get taken out in the '61, it'll be by the engine coming into the cabin or the column pinning me like a butterfly. It won't be due to a single master cylinder.
03-21-2019, 12:21 PM
#30
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St. Jude Donor '05
Cant worry about everything but as we get older we realize mortality. Lots more cars and distracted drivers on the road
Ok so put lapbelts, a collapsible column and a safer master & enjoy. i dont think OP screwed up but when one goes out youll think twice about it, btdt.
Life is worth more than some imaginary resale (before we start hearing that bs)
Ok so put lapbelts, a collapsible column and a safer master & enjoy. i dont think OP screwed up but when one goes out youll think twice about it, btdt.
Life is worth more than some imaginary resale (before we start hearing that bs)
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03-21-2019, 12:45 PM
#31
Team Owner
People get a bit too enamored and comfortable about some of these improvements. First off they can fail - completely. Second off when the system does work it only keeps 1/2 the brake hardware working. If that’s only the rear brakes, which normally provide much less than 1/2 the braking with the full system, the loss of stopping power can be dramatic.
Like I said I’ve done the conversion on several classics but it’s not on anything I currently own.
Like I said I’ve done the conversion on several classics but it’s not on anything I currently own.
03-21-2019, 12:50 PM
#32
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I have no issues whatsoever with anybody upgrading the safety items on their cars. To each his own. There is NO downside to upping the safety quotient of these old cars.
03-21-2019, 12:55 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
I live in the mountains. Brake failure and brakes overheating is a serious issue here. For the small effort and money it takes I feel like it's good insurance. They also make a collapsable aftermarket steering column. I put one in my 64 Corvette road race car. Again, simple and inexpensive insurance. The number of cars and the speed of drivers and generally crappy drivers running around is much higher today than when these cars were new. My two cents.
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03-21-2019, 02:10 PM
#34
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
I've been driving 50 & 60 y/o cars for the last 35 or so years, all w/single line master cylinders. Never had a problem w/them; lots of OTHER problems, but, not with the single lines. However, on my "newer" cars, those that are/were less than 10 y/o, I've had perforations on a line, or a hose, and suffered brake loss. Not nice. 
03-21-2019, 03:27 PM
#35
I live in the mountains. Brake failure and brakes overheating is a serious issue here. For the small effort and money it takes I feel like it's good insurance. They also make a collapsable aftermarket steering column. I put one in my 64 Corvette road race car. Again, simple and inexpensive insurance. The number of cars and the speed of drivers and generally crappy drivers running around is much higher today than when these cars were new. My two cents.
03-21-2019, 04:22 PM
#36
Team Owner
Look - I had a bad front end collision in a C2...with nothing but a lap belt, single master cylinder and all drum brakes...
I walked away..gimpy, but under my own power... I'm not sure more safety features would have made much difference.
So, I'm fine with what I have... Even with shoulder belts and collapsible steering column these cars will only ever be but so safe. There are no crush zones, air bags, and, what-have-you... If you hit something much harder than I did head on - its lights out IMO even with more safety add-ons. If you get hit in the side those items are of limited utility at best...
However, as others have said, if you're totally convinced they will help by all means bolt them on...
Listen: In light of the recent passing of 65tripleblack and now the sad loss of 55copper (Roy Braatz) in just the past few days, do whatever you think it takes to enjoy AND DRIVE these cars while you can...
I walked away..gimpy, but under my own power... I'm not sure more safety features would have made much difference.
So, I'm fine with what I have... Even with shoulder belts and collapsible steering column these cars will only ever be but so safe. There are no crush zones, air bags, and, what-have-you... If you hit something much harder than I did head on - its lights out IMO even with more safety add-ons. If you get hit in the side those items are of limited utility at best...
However, as others have said, if you're totally convinced they will help by all means bolt them on...
Listen: In light of the recent passing of 65tripleblack and now the sad loss of 55copper (Roy Braatz) in just the past few days, do whatever you think it takes to enjoy AND DRIVE these cars while you can...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 03-21-2019 at 04:33 PM.
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03-21-2019, 05:12 PM
#38
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Let's see. I'm waiting for someone to say "do it for the children" or for "peace of mind". Where are all these people that hide in bomb shelters in fear of a nuclear attack?
03-21-2019, 05:47 PM
#40
Le Mans Master