I have to take issue with your "specialist". First, CA reformulated II gasoline is a very specific, regulated blend of hydrocarbons and oxygenates. The two oxygenates in general use throughout the US are methyl tertiary butyl ether, and ethyl alcohol. The type of oxygenate used is a matter of economics. MTBE can be added at the refinery, and shipped via pipeline, but not ethanol because it can absorb water, so it is shipped via railroad tank car and "splashed" into the tanker truck at the distribution point for delivery to the retailer.

Oxygenated fuels have a bit less energy than non-oxygenated fuels - one to three percent depending on the amount of oxygenate, which varies during the year. In CA RFG II has oxygenate year round, but more in the winter than summer. In many parts of the country, oxygenates are only used during the winter.

The EPA and CA have approved up to 10 percent ethanol by volume, and all OEM's approve this for modern cars. MTBE may be blended up to 15 percent by volume. Modern fuel system elastomers have be upgraded to handle "gasohol" and MTBE, so if your rubber fuel lines are less than fifteen years old, they will not deteriorate due to ethanol. If they are over fifteen years old, replacement would be highly advisable just on the basis or their age.

Since MTBE is being phased out, within the next few years the only common oxygenate with be ethanol.

I don't buy the claim that Arco is much different from any other brand of gasoline because of both the RFG II blending requirements, and the fact that most retailers buy generic gasoline from independent refiners. The use of ethanol as an oxygenate in Northern CA is more common than in Southern CA, and usually there is a sticker on the pump stating whether the fuel contains either MTBE or ethanol.

The above information is from research I did a few years ago when RFG first came into use, and the primary source was discussions with personel from the Chrevrol Research facility in Richmond and documentation that they provided me.

Duke




[Modified by SWCDuke, 5:15 PM 11/7/2002]

 

kcwild62...you have mail :yesnod:

 

...yeah, so much for "local experts"...duke is correct about the additive levels...the federal regulations are pretty clear on such issues (40CFR Part 80, for those of you so inclined)..and the level of additive must be displayed at the pump so be an informed consumer when you look at the pump.....i'd be interested in knowing whether GM, or any other manufacturer, for that matter, has issued a TSB cautioning against the use of "gasohol" in whatever concentration of alcohol

...lesse here, gimme a box of slides and wheel me around to corvette club meetings...now that i know ONE regulation, i'm an expert.......


...no offense intended to the poster but that "consultant" better keep his day job...and THIS is exactly why we have this forum...to detect :bs


[Modified by Kid_Again, 12:34 PM 11/7/2002]

 

Like Animal and Duke said, I've been able to use Premium virtally everywhere. Back when we had leaded gas, I used to do a 50/50 fill with regular leaded and super unleaded.

Now they have done away with leaded gas, and Super is only 91 Octane here in California. I've been OK with this so far. I have added 100 Octane gas when at the track, but I've also run with pure unleaded with no problems (fromthe gas at least).

 

The world of regulations and the real world sometimes differ. I referred to the fellow I heard speak as a specialist, because his company actually assays the composition of gas they buy at the pump, and studies the specific effects of each brand of gasoline on engines. They definitely do not take petroleum companies' word for it that their fuels have a certain composition. Since he is not handy for questioning, I will summarize his remarks to the effect that brands of gas in northern California differ enough in composition to measurably affect the way an engine runs and the long-term health of fuel-system components. His talk to our NCRS group was supplemented by one from a well-experienced Corvette-only mechanic, more than familiar with C1s through C5s, who substantiated the damage done to C5 fuel injector components by some modern gas, particularly ARCO's.

Kid Again, the specialist's "day job" is fuel and engine analysis, not making second guesses on Internet forums. :D

 

[QUOTEi'd be interested in knowing whether GM, or any other manufacturer, for that matter, has issued a TSB cautioning against the use of "gasohol" in whatever concentration of alcohol


[Modified by Kid_Again, 12:34 PM 11/7/2002][/QUOTE]

Just checked the owner's manuals in both of our '02 cars - my Dodge Caravan is "E-85" capable (will run on ordinary 87-octane or on "E-85" fuel containing up to 85% ethanol), although the manual points out that degraded driveability and hard starting is common with E-85, and fuel economy will drop 30% or more on E-85, and E-85 should not be used in temperatures below 0*F. It also points out that fuel containing Methanol should NEVER be used, as it will void the warranty, and it goes on to point out that most "octane enhancer" additives contain a very high concentration of Methanol, which will damage the fuel system.

My wife's Sebring convertible (different engine) is NOT E-85 capable; the manual says fuels containing up to 15% ethanol ("gasohol") are fine, and has the same caution about "octane enhancer" additives.

As Clem has pointed out many times, "octane enhancer" additives eat the plating off the inside of carbs he has been given to rebuild; the OEM warnings about "octane enhancer" additives are obviously there for a reason - they should be avoided.

 

LouieM...and my real job is to read and interpret regulations - successfully for about 20 years now......you see, the point is that companies are required to follow the law and its interpreting regulations...so, if there is massive deviation from the EPA regulations in your part of the state and it can be proven that your "expert" uncovered this RATHER unlikely deceptive practice, he can file a qui tam suit (a whistleblower suit) and live off those winnings rather than scaring the crap out of the innocent......

...please don't second guess me on the regs

 

I'll take your TEL. I'm in central NJ.
Please email me your phone # or I'll give you mine.
Lou

 

Kid Again,
No second guessing going on here, and no offense meant. Just relating what I heard from a knowledgeable person. 'Nuff said, from my perspective.

 

...LouieM...OK, thanks

63FI....kcwild62 has already expressed interest so i'd like to honor that request first...btw, i have 8 qts Podell's TEL and 5/6 12 oz. cans of Supreme 130 - each one worked equally well for me and i generally used only half the recommended amount because of what i read here about the corrosive properties of some of these additives...but that amount was adequate to completely stop detonation with the big block during august - and those pistons were perfectly good enough to be put right back into the engine during the rebuild...

....i know very well where hamilton square is...i used to shop at harry's....i am just down route 295 from you


[Modified by Kid_Again, 7:28 AM 11/8/2002]

 

I currently blend Shell Premium and race gas for 100 oct. On the road, just take some small pre-measured bottles of Supreme 130........ no problem.

I'm building a replacement BB motor now, for next season... i'll be shooting for ~ 11:1 with the big iron merlins... after I get everything fit up, it might even be a tad more :yesnod: I can't see spending $8000, or so, on an big strong engine, then bitching about a few extra bucks for quality fuel.

 

I'm at 10.4:1 with iron heads.....runs perfectly on a 110 degree day on 91 octane. :cheers:

 

kcwild62...you have mail


[Modified by Kid_Again, 7:23 AM 11/9/2002]

 

At 11.25 mine works just fine on 93 :cheers: :cool: