Crazy C-1 Values
05-28-2019, 09:35 AM
#21
Team Owner
These threads are always so speculative... Asking prices as quoted by the OP may be a world apart from SOLD prices..
I watch the split window market closely - prices have slacked off a bit. As I sad in another thread, a top vendor of C1 restomod chassis is selling two A WEEK. That says a lot to me.
Anybody that's laid under a C1 dash installing wiper transmissions or has installed a dash pad or fiddled with dual quads will tell you that it takes a level of commitment that I'm not sure I have anymore.. I loved roaring around in my solid lifter 61. I would only own another C1 as a resomod candidate...
I slacked that thirst with my 2002 Thunderbird (get ready for the haters); a retro look with modern amenities - so I'm good for now. BUT, if the right C1 shell came along well - I have a HELOC and I know how to use it.
I watch the split window market closely - prices have slacked off a bit. As I sad in another thread, a top vendor of C1 restomod chassis is selling two A WEEK. That says a lot to me.
Anybody that's laid under a C1 dash installing wiper transmissions or has installed a dash pad or fiddled with dual quads will tell you that it takes a level of commitment that I'm not sure I have anymore.. I loved roaring around in my solid lifter 61. I would only own another C1 as a resomod candidate...
I slacked that thirst with my 2002 Thunderbird (get ready for the haters); a retro look with modern amenities - so I'm good for now. BUT, if the right C1 shell came along well - I have a HELOC and I know how to use it.
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05-28-2019, 09:38 AM
#22
Safety Car
So then according to you, your silver blue over sliver chrome hood latched 300 hp disc brake equipped 64, is now only worth $40-$42.
05-28-2019, 09:44 AM
#23
Team Owner
I'm a buyer at $42 - I won't even negotiate the price..
05-28-2019, 09:55 AM
#24
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So lets recap the current status:
1. Original C1 and C2 cars are on the decline, market wise.
2. Cars that are suitable for resto-modding are gaining interest, improving market wise
3. EX- top flight / Bloomington cars that still retain their originality are declining in value
4. Ex hot rod C1 and C2 cars make good restor-mod platforms, but asking prices are still on the high side
5. Cars with significant body modifications are not very desirable, and this is reflected in the market prices
6. Non-original cars with good bodies, and especially ones with good paint (quality work and desirable colors) and seen as good resto-mod starting points, and the market reflects this
7. Older hobbyists are getting out of the hobby, but their high dollar restored original cars are not bringing the money they once did
1. Original C1 and C2 cars are on the decline, market wise.
2. Cars that are suitable for resto-modding are gaining interest, improving market wise
3. EX- top flight / Bloomington cars that still retain their originality are declining in value
4. Ex hot rod C1 and C2 cars make good restor-mod platforms, but asking prices are still on the high side
5. Cars with significant body modifications are not very desirable, and this is reflected in the market prices
6. Non-original cars with good bodies, and especially ones with good paint (quality work and desirable colors) and seen as good resto-mod starting points, and the market reflects this
7. Older hobbyists are getting out of the hobby, but their high dollar restored original cars are not bringing the money they once did
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05-28-2019, 10:31 AM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
These threads are always so speculative... Asking prices as quoted by the OP may be a world apart from SOLD prices..
I watch the split window market closely - prices have slacked off a bit. As I sad in another thread, a top vendor of C1 restomod chassis is selling two A WEEK. That says a lot to me.
Anybody that's laid under a C1 dash installing wiper transmissions or has installed a dash pad or fiddled with dual quads will tell you that it takes a level of commitment that I'm not sure I have anymore.. I loved roaring around in my solid lifter 61. I would only own another C1 as a resomod candidate...
I slacked that thirst with my 2002 Thunderbird (get ready for the haters); a retro look with modern amenities - so I'm good for now. BUT, if the right C1 shell came along well - I have a HELOC and I know how to use it.
I watch the split window market closely - prices have slacked off a bit. As I sad in another thread, a top vendor of C1 restomod chassis is selling two A WEEK. That says a lot to me.
Anybody that's laid under a C1 dash installing wiper transmissions or has installed a dash pad or fiddled with dual quads will tell you that it takes a level of commitment that I'm not sure I have anymore.. I loved roaring around in my solid lifter 61. I would only own another C1 as a resomod candidate...
I slacked that thirst with my 2002 Thunderbird (get ready for the haters); a retro look with modern amenities - so I'm good for now. BUT, if the right C1 shell came along well - I have a HELOC and I know how to use it.
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05-28-2019, 11:09 AM
#26
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Checking the cars for sale its hard to find a C-1 that isn't in the 50-70k range. Hard to believe when one can buy new 2019s advertised for 46k , C-4s 6-12k, and C-6s in the 30s. If the over seas buying continues soon they will be scarce hidden behind locked , chained doors.
As with most threads this one has run off track from the original post. C1 and C2s are completely different animals so there was no need to throw the C2s into this thread.
I will respond to the original post.
It depends on what you are looking for in a car with regards to the price. There are plenty of driver quality, day two examples out there for sale today in the $50K range based on my daily view of the “Opinions on these C1/C2 for sale” thread. If you are looking for a previously judged award winning car they are more money but the prices are dropping for those cars. If you are looking for a car to build into a restomod those vanadate's are generally in the $25K range.
Late model Corvettes are similar to any other late model car with regards to depreciation and as member Dan Hampton has remarked there are a lot of good deals with well cared for, low mileage late model Corvettes but you really can’t compare late model cars to C1s from a pricing point because rarely are the buyers for either a cross over.
I don’t think the overseas market for old Corvettes has effected it’s market nearly as much as people feared it would in the past as it has been going on for a long time. There were a lot of C1 through C3 Corvettes built and the survival rate is much better than other classic cars.
These cars are already scarce hidden behind locked, chained doors. How many C1 or C2s do you see driving on the roads daily compared to late model Corvettes? It has been this way for nearly 20 years.
Last edited by 68hemi; 05-28-2019 at 11:11 AM.
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05-28-2019, 11:13 AM
#27
Drifting
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Maybe original and driver C1's are like girls white GoGo Boots and short shorts. Currently, desires seem to be C1 Restomods and cowboy boots with long skirts. Maybe that has an impact on selling or buying C1 values?
05-28-2019, 11:28 AM
#28
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05-28-2019, 11:52 AM
#30
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05-28-2019, 11:52 AM
#31
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Doug
05-28-2019, 11:58 AM
#32
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absolutely. Mot of them don't care about our old car except for the cash it will put in their pockets.
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Stan's Customs (05-31-2019)
05-28-2019, 12:01 PM
#33
Race Director
This whole thread is depressing, and it has nothing to do with whatever price my cars may be worth, that i will most likely never sell.
But rather, as a teenager i got into the hobby, and have continued with it ever since, and I slowly watch people i have known for that long, some of who rode with me or helped work on my car, long ago, pass away, reminding me, i am no longer 17.
The dealer I spoke of in another thread, has been picking up superb, rare cars and collections from their deceased owners estates at good prices, in the past few years.
Doug
But rather, as a teenager i got into the hobby, and have continued with it ever since, and I slowly watch people i have known for that long, some of who rode with me or helped work on my car, long ago, pass away, reminding me, i am no longer 17.
The dealer I spoke of in another thread, has been picking up superb, rare cars and collections from their deceased owners estates at good prices, in the past few years.
Doug
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05-28-2019, 01:10 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
You start off that treatise with one sentence about the C1 then go into a lengthy example of something ? on a C2...
They are widely variant - appealing to different types of people mostly and with differing maintenance requirements and ability to be modified...
I sold my '61 3 years ago for $65K and got another $4K-$5K for the spare parts I'd accumulated. I don't feel I left anything on the table. I doubt I could get that much for it now.... I think the appeal of these cars in original trim is waning and, unless restomodded, that will continue.
I may be wrong but I'm not seeing a cadre of young new purchasers that want to slide behind that "school bus" steering wheel and wrestle that center link/king pin steering around or deal with the funky wiper system, and the cowl vent A/C, etc.
Right now I think its just old guys buying cars from even older guys who are "getting out"..
They are widely variant - appealing to different types of people mostly and with differing maintenance requirements and ability to be modified...
I sold my '61 3 years ago for $65K and got another $4K-$5K for the spare parts I'd accumulated. I don't feel I left anything on the table. I doubt I could get that much for it now.... I think the appeal of these cars in original trim is waning and, unless restomodded, that will continue.
I may be wrong but I'm not seeing a cadre of young new purchasers that want to slide behind that "school bus" steering wheel and wrestle that center link/king pin steering around or deal with the funky wiper system, and the cowl vent A/C, etc.
Right now I think its just old guys buying cars from even older guys who are "getting out"..
05-28-2019, 01:18 PM
#35
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it's just like the greying of many hobbies. Supply and demand. Don't worry about it as an investment, just enjoy it. I can say there are better quality cars for the same money today, than a year ago. And, if your focus isn't so precise that you have to have a specific color, engine, year, etc., there are some really good C1 buys out there.
BH
BH
05-28-2019, 01:28 PM
#36
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But I do think it is increasing in value because:
1. I just have Vintage Air installed - what a great product
2. I am about to add a completely restored 1964 Rochester Fuel Injection system to the car
05-28-2019, 01:41 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
This whole thread is depressing, and it has nothing to do with whatever price my cars may be worth, that i will most likely never sell.
But rather, as a teenager i got into the hobby, and have continued with it ever since, and I slowly watch people i have known for that long, some of who rode with me or helped work on my car, long ago, pass away, reminding me, i am no longer 17.
The dealer I spoke of in another thread, has been picking up superb, rare cars and collections from their deceased owners estates at good prices, in the past few years.
Doug
But rather, as a teenager i got into the hobby, and have continued with it ever since, and I slowly watch people i have known for that long, some of who rode with me or helped work on my car, long ago, pass away, reminding me, i am no longer 17.
The dealer I spoke of in another thread, has been picking up superb, rare cars and collections from their deceased owners estates at good prices, in the past few years.
Doug
The wife knows how much was spent on them but she has no clue what they are worth. I will either buy them or try to sell them and charge a commission.
05-28-2019, 03:52 PM
#38
I don’t think the overseas market for old Corvettes has effected it’s market nearly as much as people feared it would in the past as it has been going on for a long time. There were a lot of C1 through C3 Corvettes built and the survival rate is much better than other classic cars.
These cars are already scarce hidden behind locked, chained doors. How many C1 or C2s do you see driving on the roads daily compared to late model Corvettes? It has been this way for nearly 20 years.
These cars are already scarce hidden behind locked, chained doors. How many C1 or C2s do you see driving on the roads daily compared to late model Corvettes? It has been this way for nearly 20 years.
1. Many of these cars were just used cars back in the day and worked their way down the economic food chain until the finals owners did not have the financial wherewithal to restore them even to running condition. And even if they could restore them, it was not at that time worth the expense given the value of the car once restored. So they were discarded in the easiest and least costly way possible for these people - left in barns, a field, or by a trailer home to rot away.
2. Looking at the C3s in particular, over 540,000 of these cars were produced. They were EVERYWHERE when I was growing up (I was 9 when the 68 came out and 24 by the time the 82 was finished production). But they were everywhere because the vast majority of these cars were daily drivers that would wear out and were not typically worth the cost of restoration. Given that nearly 400,000 (nearly 3/4 of production) were base engine cars and just over 367,000 were automatics, it is no surprise to me that the vast majority of C3s have been used up, used as parts cars, or rusting in a field somewhere. They simply were not worth restoring and would not be worth the effort when you could find good examples for far less than the cost of restoration.
3. C3 (and earlier) Corvettes generally deteriorated much quicker than the C4 and later Corvettes due to the lack of fuel injection, lack of superior metal coatings, lack of computer controls. Once modern engine control, materials, and coatings became available, cars could last easily over 200,000 miles compared with the 100,000 or so miles of the typical C3 and earlier car. This is another reason why some many of these cars left our roads as drivable cars so soon.
4. I would estimate that about 100,000 of the C3 generation is left in useable condition (with maybe about 50,000 C2, and 30,000 or so C1s). That leaves a lot of room for the remaining 440,000 of these C3 to be found on fields or part of Corvette junk yards.
As an aside, I wish someone would do a study of state registrations to get a sense for how many of these Corvettes are left.
05-28-2019, 04:22 PM
#39
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bb62,
The only thing conflicting in my statements you have cited is the word scarce which was actually the OP’s word that I was responding to and I should have left out.
So to better clarify what I-was trying to convey:
The survival rate for C1 and C2 are much higher than C3s. Both were already being “collected”/saved back in the early 70s.
They are still around but seldom seen on the roads today. There are still plenty of them around unlike most metal cars that are now in the fenders of Toyota’s. About the only 60s cars you see advertise more than Corvettes are Mustangs that they made millions of.
The only thing conflicting in my statements you have cited is the word scarce which was actually the OP’s word that I was responding to and I should have left out.
So to better clarify what I-was trying to convey:
The survival rate for C1 and C2 are much higher than C3s. Both were already being “collected”/saved back in the early 70s.
They are still around but seldom seen on the roads today. There are still plenty of them around unlike most metal cars that are now in the fenders of Toyota’s. About the only 60s cars you see advertise more than Corvettes are Mustangs that they made millions of.
05-28-2019, 04:28 PM
#40
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Let me play Devil's Advocate for just a moment...
First lets discard from the discussion those cars that, because of their rarity, will always hold their value..
1. Any 1953 Corvette
2. Any 1955 Corvette
3. Any C1 Fuel Injected Corvette
4. Any C1 pedigreed ex-race car Corvette (a C1 with provable decent race history)
5. Any low mileage, original, unmolested C1 Corvette
6. Any C1 Corvette authentically optioned with big brakes, big wheels, big gas tank, etc.
On the other end of the scale are the fairly common, low horsepower or NOM , previously wrecked, no significant options.
These cars just cry out to be restro-modded.
OK, that covers both ends of the scale, now lets think about the "tweeners", the cars in between these two extremes.
The demographics of the crowd that remembers these cars new or almost new is rapidly disappearing. And many of those that are still around want creature comforts to accompany their C1 styling.
A friend of mine that runs a restoration shop bought a 58 project car from the widow. The car was an original FI car, but the FI was long gone, and the front end was banged up badly. He built that car into a six figure resto-mod for a customer. The customer had the car about 6 months, then sent it to the auction. The owner did not care for the "lack of creature" comforts. The resto-mod has all of the standard add ons (A.C, P/S, P/B, cruise control, P/W, etc.) but did not have heated seats, six way power seats, on and on and on. The car sold for $175K out of the block. It has since changed hands again for a bit more than $175K.
A nicely restored all original 58 FI car would not bring that kind of money.
Used, unrestored, not totaqlly complete or original 54s are relatively cheap. Not great cars to begin with, and plenty of them around.
Probably the most desirable C1, all other things being equal, is the 1957 Corvette. Fairly low production numbers (6339 total), lots of possible engine options, first year for FI all add up. But nice original 1953-1957 parts are expensive, and in some cases very difficult to locate. And you still have C1 ride and handling; not bad back in the day, but the day was a long time ago.
So, starting with a decent, relatively solid 57 body (or even not so solid), the aftermarket options are almost endless, and you can go from a monster 1000 hp hot rod to a nice 350 hp cruiser, with options across the board.
So, unless the car is already fairly solid and original, an original restoration does not make much sense. The demographcs, and the market, have both changed over the past 20 years.
And then there is the "cut up a nice original, bit nothing special car" and turn it into a resto-mod". I saw this happen a few years ago with an NCRS top flight, Bloomington Gold 340hp 63 coupe. The car was red on black, and nicely done. It had all of the restoration awards, and the owner decided to sell the car. The car sold, and the first thing the new owner did was have the body pulled from the chassis. The chassis with matching number engine and trans was sold off, and a resto-mod chassis was build for the car. It got a LS motor, 6 speed trans, and all of the bells and whistles.
The owner decided to go this way because he did not want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing possible bad body work. The body needed almost no mods / fixes, or even paint work. The owner said he wasn't sure he saved any money doing it this way, but he sure saved a lot of time.
I have heard this same story about 58-62 cars. Take a nice original car and pull it apart. The C1 chassis market is almost flooded (well, maybe not flooded, but there are plenty around) with good used or restored C1 chassis' and drive trains.
This does two things. 1) It increases the number of original parts that are in the market for those people that are restoring original cars and 2) it brings a different demographic into the classic Corvette market, the younger crowd that wants the classic look with all of the creature comforts.
OK, that's my take from the Devil's Advocate point of view
First lets discard from the discussion those cars that, because of their rarity, will always hold their value..
1. Any 1953 Corvette
2. Any 1955 Corvette
3. Any C1 Fuel Injected Corvette
4. Any C1 pedigreed ex-race car Corvette (a C1 with provable decent race history)
5. Any low mileage, original, unmolested C1 Corvette
6. Any C1 Corvette authentically optioned with big brakes, big wheels, big gas tank, etc.
On the other end of the scale are the fairly common, low horsepower or NOM , previously wrecked, no significant options.
These cars just cry out to be restro-modded.
OK, that covers both ends of the scale, now lets think about the "tweeners", the cars in between these two extremes.
The demographics of the crowd that remembers these cars new or almost new is rapidly disappearing. And many of those that are still around want creature comforts to accompany their C1 styling.
A friend of mine that runs a restoration shop bought a 58 project car from the widow. The car was an original FI car, but the FI was long gone, and the front end was banged up badly. He built that car into a six figure resto-mod for a customer. The customer had the car about 6 months, then sent it to the auction. The owner did not care for the "lack of creature" comforts. The resto-mod has all of the standard add ons (A.C, P/S, P/B, cruise control, P/W, etc.) but did not have heated seats, six way power seats, on and on and on. The car sold for $175K out of the block. It has since changed hands again for a bit more than $175K.
A nicely restored all original 58 FI car would not bring that kind of money.
Used, unrestored, not totaqlly complete or original 54s are relatively cheap. Not great cars to begin with, and plenty of them around.
Probably the most desirable C1, all other things being equal, is the 1957 Corvette. Fairly low production numbers (6339 total), lots of possible engine options, first year for FI all add up. But nice original 1953-1957 parts are expensive, and in some cases very difficult to locate. And you still have C1 ride and handling; not bad back in the day, but the day was a long time ago.
So, starting with a decent, relatively solid 57 body (or even not so solid), the aftermarket options are almost endless, and you can go from a monster 1000 hp hot rod to a nice 350 hp cruiser, with options across the board.
So, unless the car is already fairly solid and original, an original restoration does not make much sense. The demographcs, and the market, have both changed over the past 20 years.
And then there is the "cut up a nice original, bit nothing special car" and turn it into a resto-mod". I saw this happen a few years ago with an NCRS top flight, Bloomington Gold 340hp 63 coupe. The car was red on black, and nicely done. It had all of the restoration awards, and the owner decided to sell the car. The car sold, and the first thing the new owner did was have the body pulled from the chassis. The chassis with matching number engine and trans was sold off, and a resto-mod chassis was build for the car. It got a LS motor, 6 speed trans, and all of the bells and whistles.
The owner decided to go this way because he did not want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing possible bad body work. The body needed almost no mods / fixes, or even paint work. The owner said he wasn't sure he saved any money doing it this way, but he sure saved a lot of time.
I have heard this same story about 58-62 cars. Take a nice original car and pull it apart. The C1 chassis market is almost flooded (well, maybe not flooded, but there are plenty around) with good used or restored C1 chassis' and drive trains.
This does two things. 1) It increases the number of original parts that are in the market for those people that are restoring original cars and 2) it brings a different demographic into the classic Corvette market, the younger crowd that wants the classic look with all of the creature comforts.
OK, that's my take from the Devil's Advocate point of view
No Corvettes, no matter how common or low horsepower, “cry out to be restro-modded.”
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