C1 & C2 Corvettes General C1 Corvette & C2 Corvette Discussion, Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Project Builds, Restorations

[C2] 327/300 question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-17-2019, 01:29 PM
  #1  
68hemi
Race Director
Thread Starter
 
68hemi's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: Cottonwood AZ
Posts: 10,698
Received 3,048 Likes on 1,934 Posts
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019

Default 327/300 question

I know the 327/300 h.p. engine was super popular for many years and installed in 100s of thousands in nearly every body Chevrolet built over several years.
My question is was the engine identical in all of these cars or were there any differences when installed in the Corvette? I am thinking no but don't know absolutely.

Popular Reply

06-17-2019, 04:29 PM
SWCDuke
Race Director
 
SWCDuke's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2000
Location: Redondo Beach USA
Posts: 12,487
Received 1,974 Likes on 1,188 Posts
Default

327/300s with manual transmissions in both pass. cars and Corvettes had 2.5" manifolds from '62 to '65, but the pass. cars had 2" pipes so the pipes had to be expanded to fit the manifolds. After '65 all had 2" manifolds, so the Corvette 2.5" pipes (manuals) had to be adapted to the 2" outlet, except PG that had 2" pipes.

For '66 the conn. rods were redesigned adding a little "hump" of material adjacent to the bolt seats that makes these rods more durable than the early rods that were prone to fatigue failure, especially on high revving mechanical lifter engines.

A new camshaft was released for '67. The base cam for all '57-66 engines (220, 230, 245, 250FI, 275FI HP/ 283s , 250 and 300 HP/327s) was replaced with this new cam that recognized that big port heads as machined by Flint are restrictive on the exhaust side, so a few more degrees exhaust duration via a slightly earlier opening exhaust valve is advantageous. This cam/pin assembly, 3896929 (Federal Mogul CS-74) has 194/202 degrees .050" lifter rise duration, 112 LSA and the IPOML is 108 deg. ATDC. The prior cam was a single lobe design 196 degrees .050" lifter rise with about the same LSA and indexing. Chevrolet did not increase rated power, and I don't know if a difference could be measured on a dyno. One advantage of the later cam is that it has milder lobe dynamics, so it's easier on the valve train. A new slightly higher rate valve spring was released for this cam (and ALL other small blocks) and I think it also used a new retainer that yielded slightly higher spring height. If you set up the valve springs for .090-.100" coil bind clearance the valve float speed is in the 67-6800 range, but a 327/300 engine will be wheezing at 5000 without head massaging.

Another change was the appearance of the abominable nylon cam sprocket in 1965. Prior to that the "wide" silent chain was used on pass. cars and Corvettes. I don't know if the 327/300 was available in any truck models, but if it was, the engine would have had the double row roller chain.

Duke
Old 06-17-2019, 01:50 PM
  #2  
MikeM
Team Owner
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes on 1,398 Posts

Default

Nothing different that would change the horsepower rating. Many differences that made up all the different engine codes over the four year run of that engine.
Old 06-17-2019, 02:31 PM
  #3  
MOXIE62
Safety Car
 
MOXIE62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,573
Received 333 Likes on 276 Posts

Default

All 63 corvette blocks had a single digit for the year in the cast date at rear of block. Not sure but I think passenger blocks had double digits.
Old 06-17-2019, 02:51 PM
  #4  
68hemi
Race Director
Thread Starter
 
68hemi's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: Cottonwood AZ
Posts: 10,698
Received 3,048 Likes on 1,934 Posts
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019

Default

I am referring to internal differences. I know that the carb changed in 1966 to a Holley and that the h.p. rating I the same. My question is were there any internal changes between passenger car and Corvette engines?
Old 06-17-2019, 03:06 PM
  #5  
Nowhere Man
Team Owner
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
Posts: 49,015
Received 6,945 Likes on 4,784 Posts
2015 C2 of Year Finalist

Default

The biggest change was the exhaust manifolds But as far as I know the internal parts was the same

Last edited by Nowhere Man; 06-17-2019 at 03:06 PM.
Old 06-17-2019, 03:06 PM
  #6  
Boyan
Drifting
 
Boyan's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Woodland Hills CA
Posts: 1,954
Received 466 Likes on 294 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by MOXIE62
All 63 corvette blocks had a single digit for the year in the cast date at rear of block. Not sure but I think passenger blocks had double digits.
This has nothing to do with passenger car or Corvette. It has to do with the Plants the engine was made. Tonawanda or Flint. All small block Corvette’s were Flint, but not all passenger cars were Tonawanda.
The following users liked this post:
vettebuyer6369 (06-17-2019)
Old 06-17-2019, 04:04 PM
  #7  
MikeM
Team Owner
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes on 1,398 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 68hemi
I am referring to internal differences. I know that the carb changed in 1966 to a Holley and that the h.p. rating I the same. My question is were there any internal changes between passenger car and Corvette engines?
I am thinking the Corvette engines used chrome rings vs unplated rings for pass. car. Could be wrong. That's a long time ago.
Old 06-17-2019, 04:29 PM
  #8  
SWCDuke
Race Director
 
SWCDuke's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2000
Location: Redondo Beach USA
Posts: 12,487
Received 1,974 Likes on 1,188 Posts

Default

327/300s with manual transmissions in both pass. cars and Corvettes had 2.5" manifolds from '62 to '65, but the pass. cars had 2" pipes so the pipes had to be expanded to fit the manifolds. After '65 all had 2" manifolds, so the Corvette 2.5" pipes (manuals) had to be adapted to the 2" outlet, except PG that had 2" pipes.

For '66 the conn. rods were redesigned adding a little "hump" of material adjacent to the bolt seats that makes these rods more durable than the early rods that were prone to fatigue failure, especially on high revving mechanical lifter engines.

A new camshaft was released for '67. The base cam for all '57-66 engines (220, 230, 245, 250FI, 275FI HP/ 283s , 250 and 300 HP/327s) was replaced with this new cam that recognized that big port heads as machined by Flint are restrictive on the exhaust side, so a few more degrees exhaust duration via a slightly earlier opening exhaust valve is advantageous. This cam/pin assembly, 3896929 (Federal Mogul CS-74) has 194/202 degrees .050" lifter rise duration, 112 LSA and the IPOML is 108 deg. ATDC. The prior cam was a single lobe design 196 degrees .050" lifter rise with about the same LSA and indexing. Chevrolet did not increase rated power, and I don't know if a difference could be measured on a dyno. One advantage of the later cam is that it has milder lobe dynamics, so it's easier on the valve train. A new slightly higher rate valve spring was released for this cam (and ALL other small blocks) and I think it also used a new retainer that yielded slightly higher spring height. If you set up the valve springs for .090-.100" coil bind clearance the valve float speed is in the 67-6800 range, but a 327/300 engine will be wheezing at 5000 without head massaging.

Another change was the appearance of the abominable nylon cam sprocket in 1965. Prior to that the "wide" silent chain was used on pass. cars and Corvettes. I don't know if the 327/300 was available in any truck models, but if it was, the engine would have had the double row roller chain.

Duke
The following 6 users liked this post by SWCDuke:
68hemi (06-17-2019), C2Scho (06-18-2019), frankturbo (06-17-2019), jimgessner (06-18-2019), Mr Fufu (06-19-2019), Panhead (06-17-2019) and 1 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Old 06-17-2019, 04:40 PM
  #9  
68hemi
Race Director
Thread Starter
 
68hemi's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: Cottonwood AZ
Posts: 10,698
Received 3,048 Likes on 1,934 Posts
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019

Default

Thank you Duke. As always you have covered all the points.
Old 06-17-2019, 06:55 PM
  #10  
rayL79
Racer
 
rayL79's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: ashburnham, MA
Posts: 255
Received 103 Likes on 63 Posts
Default

I remember reading that Corvette engines used different (Moraine) bearings than the passenger car engines.
Old 06-17-2019, 07:01 PM
  #11  
MikeM
Team Owner
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes on 1,398 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by SWCDuke
327/300s with manual transmissions in both pass. cars and Corvettes had 2.5" manifolds from '62 to '65, but the pass. cars had 2" pipes so the pipes had to be expanded to fit the manifolds.
Duke

You need to do a little homework on your first paragraph. This isn't totally accurate.

327/300's weren't available in trucks but 327's were. Also available in boats, generators, and Massey-Ferguson combines.

Last edited by MikeM; 06-17-2019 at 07:03 PM.
Old 06-17-2019, 07:02 PM
  #12  
MikeM
Team Owner
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes on 1,398 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by rayL79
I remember reading that Corvette engines used different (Moraine) bearings than the passenger car engines.

That's my recall as well but I can't substantiate that.
Old 06-17-2019, 07:07 PM
  #13  
MikeM
Team Owner
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes on 1,398 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 68hemi
Thank you Duke. As always you have covered all the points.
You asked for internal differences between Corvette and Pass car. All the changes listed above were across the board. Which way did you want it?
Old 06-18-2019, 02:46 AM
  #14  
68hemi
Race Director
Thread Starter
 
68hemi's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: Cottonwood AZ
Posts: 10,698
Received 3,048 Likes on 1,934 Posts
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019

Default

Originally Posted by MikeM
You asked for internal differences between Corvette and Pass car. All the changes listed above were across the board. Which way did you want it?
Well, I figured that since he made no mention of it as others have that there are no internal differences. Thanks.
Old 06-18-2019, 09:05 AM
  #15  
Vettegeezer
Instructor
 
Vettegeezer's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 246
Received 54 Likes on 49 Posts
Default

I vaguely remember reading that the Corvette blocks were cast of higher strength nodular iron which necessitated a different casting number than passenger engine 327's.
Old 06-18-2019, 10:22 AM
  #16  
W Guy
Drifting
 
W Guy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2007
Location: Hightstown NJ
Posts: 1,711
Received 178 Likes on 133 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by MOXIE62
All 63 corvette blocks had a single digit for the year in the cast date at rear of block. Not sure but I think passenger blocks had double digits.
ALL the 300hp engines were built at Flint, Corvette & Passenger. For other engines, Passenger cars used both Flint & Tonawanda built assemblies, but primarily Tonawanda.

Verne
Old 06-18-2019, 03:33 PM
  #17  
vettsplit 63
Le Mans Master

 
vettsplit 63's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2009
Location: "You may all go to Hell- and I will go to Texas- Davy Crockett
Posts: 9,151
Received 474 Likes on 337 Posts
St. Jude Donor '12

Default

Maybe it was the way the question was asked, but the other internal differences between the 250 horse 327 and the 300 were the heads and intake manifold. The 250s got the single pyramid power pak head, and the 300's got the double hump heads with the intake using the AFB versus the 250's WCFB

Get notified of new replies

To 327/300 question

Old 06-18-2019, 04:05 PM
  #18  
MOXIE62
Safety Car
 
MOXIE62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,573
Received 333 Likes on 276 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Boyan
This has nothing to do with passenger car or Corvette. It has to do with the Plants the engine was made. Tonawanda or Flint. All small block Corvette’s were Flint, but not all passenger cars were Tonawanda.
Right, all 63 corvette blocks were Made at Flint, which has only a single digit.
Old 06-18-2019, 04:12 PM
  #19  
MikeM
Team Owner
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes on 1,398 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by vettsplit 63

The 250s got the single pyramid power pak head, and the 300's got the double hump heads with the intake using the AFB versus the 250's WCFB

That was true until 1965 and then the 250 engine got the double humps.
Old 06-18-2019, 04:45 PM
  #20  
68hemi
Race Director
Thread Starter
 
68hemi's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: Cottonwood AZ
Posts: 10,698
Received 3,048 Likes on 1,934 Posts
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019

Default

As the OP the original question was about a 300 h.p. engine not a 250, 350 or 375 h.p. engine. Very simple question.
It has been determined in this thread (and these things I already knew) that there was a carb change to Holley in 1966 and there were exhaust changes depending on year and trans.

My question is specific to internal differences between Corvette and passenger cars such as cam and compression.


Quick Reply: [C2] 327/300 question



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:13 PM.