Good evening and hope all are safe and adhering to cdc guidelines.
Has anyone ever used a remote starter solenoid with (powermaster) starter in a 64 vette with headers. My starter mounted solenoid , regardless of protection, doesn't last very long.
what is a good remote solenoid.
Thanks
Frank Dewinter
frankgv@yahoo.com

 

Lots of hot rodders & racers do this. You generally just use a Ford starter solenoid. JEGS and Summit both offer kits with the solenoid, wires and even the little jumper you need to put on the factory solenoid.


http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/10301/10002/-1

 

Thank you.

 

Good morning, hope and pray we all will stay safe and do our part.
My question: can you wire the starter solenoid with it installed on the starter---- and mounted on the 64 vette. I want to install a remote solenoid.
(can you reach all the terminals)
Thanks again.
Frank Dewinter
frankgv@yahoo.com

 

You need an effective heat shield over the solenoid - not an additional solenoid. Installing an additional solenoid does nothing for the starter mounted solenoid that remains in place and still has to do the job of pushing out the starter bendix gear and closing the contacter that energizes the starter motor windings. Those that install a remoter solenoid on a chevy starter know nothing of how a chevy starter and solenoid work. They only see a Ford uses a remote solenoid but don't understand the Ford uses different magnets inside the starter motor.

 

When I rebuilt my car I installed a new American Autowire harness. With that installation also added a Ford style starter solenoid. It works great.

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...-_no_hot_start

Tom

 

I respectfully disagree. I have had other vehicles (albeit usually big inch, high compression, headers, etc) where nothing else has worked and no amount of shielding does the trick, assuming you even can shield it properly with the headers, aftermarket oil pan, etc. Yes, you are essentially adding another solenoid and the factory solenoid is still operating the drive but sending full battery power to both lugs on the factory starter solenoid makes a huge difference. Now I agree that the OP can likely alleviate his problem with a good shield, and I would be surprised if he couldn't fix his problem by shielding the starter on a stock or close to stock car, but I can say from experience that a remote solenoid makes a difference and it isn't just some myth.

 

I agree. The remote solenoid is used as a high amp relay. If you look at the drawing from the link I posted full battery voltage is used to energize the starter solenoid not what is left after going through multiple connections.


Tom

 

I believe this is the real difference right here.

The older Fords that used the external solenoid had to have some kind of switch to activate the starter. They didn't have a solenoid mounted on the starter. Didn't need one and the starter drive was engaged simply by spinning the armature shaft. No reason to have a solenoid shift the starter in engagement with the flywheel.

 

PS.

There is more than one solenoid return spring for Delco starter solenoids. Stiffer and weaker. I believe older starters used the weaker spring and that resulted in the solenoid not having to pull so hard to make contact to spin the starter. Do I hear a click, click, click?

 

I added remote solenoid to my 327 Chev powered '37 ford pickup, but it was more for making a good location to run a bunch of power wires from, and remove the smaller wires from the starter, than anything else.
You can see the solenoid at the left rear corner of the valve cover
Doug

 

"Full battery voltage to both terminals" that is total nonsense. All you have done is added more contact resistance by putting another relay in series with the stock Chevy solenoid.
It's called denial. Your posting fictisous results from your imagination that you actually improved the starter somehow. Your not providing full voltage to anything but rather adding a voltage drop across more contacts in the added solenoid which can only reduce voltage to the Chevy solenoid which has to do all the work.

Sorry but you don't understand basic electricity enough to know what your doing. And your posting results that cannot have been taken objectively.

I read this all the time when someone tries to copy a ford starter solenoid. Usually they don't even know how to wire it but swear they know someone that made it work and fixed their heat soak solenoid problem.

No I'm not going to sugar coat this BS. It keeps getting perpetuated by mostly those that don't even know how to measure resistance and voltage with a multi meter.

 

So I guess you and your concept of why it shouldn't work is right and the thousands of people who have actually successfully done it are wrong then.

 

Ouch, didn't mean to start a war of words.
I will get over my wiring connections again, making sure good grounds etc.
the click, click problem is very intermittent and can happen in the morning or after a long drive or not !!!! It does seem to get a little more frequent. It is in my 64 with 383, HEI ignition, headers and side pipes and is wrapped with a "thermal blanket"
its a high torque powermaster 3631 full size starter.
Thanks

Frank Dewinter.

 

That doesn't sound like it's heat related then.

Maybe you should try a Delco starter?

The click click suggests your solenoid is actually pulling the contacts together. Maybe not hard enough to make a good contact or the contacts themselves are crusty, corroded, dirty.

As to the assertion above that 12 volts to the solenoid won't improve performance, a little story. I had a '56 Bel Air at one time. It had the click, click click virus trying to start it on the key. No dice but it would always start instantly if I stuck screwdriver on the solenoid battery post and the small purple wire post. Obviously, I had too much resistance in my key switch starting circuit to engage what was a marginal solenoid.

I don't know how people wire these external solenoids but if they are using it to send 12 volts straight to the solenoid, I can see how it might improve the situation.

I have a half dozen V twin Kohler small engines I've had to put a relay on to get them to start. Sends 12 volts straight to the solenoid mounted starter instead of going through the machines OEM starter circuit wiring. When the machines get old, resistance builds in the wiring circuit and not enough juice will get to the starter solenoid. The relay doesn't fix the problem. It bypasses the problem.

 

Thanks, probably should pull the starter and inspect the solenoid to rule it out.
then go after the wiring / ignition switch.
I drive it almost everyday, come rain or shine. The reason for the powermaster starter was the delco had a hardtime turning my 383 stroker. This thing is brushless and is unstoppable ( when solenoid works, lol.) We here in Illinois are now ordered to stay home so it will be some time before i can work on it. Condo living, 😂😲
Stay safe.

 

I can list several problems that can occur with the starter that may not be so obvious.

The contactor ring inside the solenoid can become eroded from years of use as each time it closes the 12v supply does a little welding on it. I learned to flip this over to use the other side when I was 16. And on one car I could remove only one solenoid cover screw with the starter still in the car but I just got to spray in some contact cleaner to make it work. This frequently makes the click, click sound but no start.
Yes sometimes a lighter solenoid spring is the solution.
Many cars have had their solenoid heat shield removed and now the solenoid gets radiant heat from the exhaust manifold/headers. An effective heat shield will contact the solenoid (or whole starter) only where it mounts and have a small air gap everywhere else between the shield and the solenoid/starter. Having an air gap is very important as the heat wraps have no air gap and will soak up heat over time and heat the solenoid/starter by heat conduction. Heat wraps may reflect radiant heat for a while but eventually become heat soaked themselves.
The end bushings that the motor armature spin in (not bearings but just bushings) need grease and can dry out over the decades.
The commutator slots can fill up shorting the windings.
The brushes can deteriorate/fail.

Good luck Frank and I can read you are open minded about this. Hope this can help.

 

An inch long, 10 ga wire from the big cable post to the Ign terminal on the solenoid.
Doug

 

If you decide to add a remote starter there are lots of pre-made kits available to complete the job. Here are a few at Summit all with good reviews. As previously stated it is a common practice on many GM cars especially ones with performance engines.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...solenoid%20kit

Good luck
Tom

 

Wired like that, it definitely will help override dirty contacts in the solenoid, heavy spring and any other resistance losses in the starting circuit.

I have no idea what heat does to a solenoid function. Many say the heat increases the resistance which causes a loss of solenoid power. If that's the case, the above circuit would help that condition as well.

I keep reading on this forum that the contact disc inside the solenoid gets cruddy and you have to clean it/flip it over to regain contact with the big stud in the cap which is what actually spins the armature. I've never found the disc to be a problem unlike the big stud the disc makes contact with. The disc wears the head of the stud down and then the solenoid won't stroke far enough to make enough contact to spin the starter. That's what makes the click, click, click noise. Flipping the stud 180* takes care of that problem. Never had to flip a disc.




This is the schematic for the small engine relay I posted. Looks like it wired the same way as the external solenoid and functions the same way.