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What would be the operating differences between all of the C2 TI coils? Are they all basically interchangeable between engines (small block coil work on big block engines, etc)? Here’s a link to all the different TI coil numbers and applications.....Click here
I’m looking for a suitable replacement for the 263 coil for the 435 horse application. Any suggestions on what works well?
No.....I’m using a 207 (which is indicated as being for a small block) on my L71 and it seems fine. The only way I’d have worried about sourcing a 263 is if it had a different primary rating, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I asked Dave at TI Specialty and he told me they all function identically. His answer as an exact quote:
“Mike, they are all interchangeable. Proof of this is there were 9 TI coils used in production from 1964 thru 1971. When it came to service availability, there was only one of the 9 available & it was originally for a small block application (1115207).”
Your Delco 207 is the best replacement coil for the L71. The 263 was the factory supplied coil and was never available in service as the 207 was the replacement which did in fact cover most TI applications. I would recommend you stay with what you have for reliability.
If you find a original stock Delco used 263 it will be expensive. If I were to find one I would want it tested under load and normalized temperature before purchase. A few years ago I tested 2 original 263's in a L71 for a friend after he paid $1k each. He was relieved that my tests passed.
Keep in mind that all reproduction TI coils available from the supplier in Georgia(China manufacturer) are internally identical. Only the debossed cases are different with the various 3 digit numbers to match factory supplied numbers. I would not recommend using any of the above reproduction coils for extended use as many have been reported to have had sporadic failures when temperature is normalized. I have direct experience. Internally a large percentage of these coils overheat and will leave you stranded. If the car is on and off a trailer for Flight/Bloomington judging you'll be fine, but not for Performance Verification as it could fail on the test ride under normal operating conditions..
I have done extensive testing on several reproduction 263's which I purchased as replacements and spares for several L71's. 2 of them reached over 250* F(IR gun at side and top of case) and failed under normal operating conditions on the road. Being stranded is not fun. After about 20 to 30 minutes cool down time it would recover and get us back to safety. In both cases they were installed inside the ignition distributor shield with a air gap at the bottom. I then experimented by removing them from the shield and strapped them outside the shield for better airflow. Both failed identically outside the "oven" reaching similar temperatures. Failures verified by replacing with a stock points coil(NAPA IC12).
Years ago Dave at TI Specialty gave me some advice. The IC12 coil will work fine for a TI system with a caveat being it will not supply the higher voltage to the TI circuit for high RPM performance. I ran one in a L71 for over a year, in the "oven" with no functional issues. The IC12 has a slightly larger diameter so it required a slight modification to the coil bracket to fit. I eventually replaced it with a NOS Delco 207 I bought, mounted back in the "oven", and it has performed flawlessly for the past 2 years.
I suspect that the reproductions primary coil shorts internally due to poor quality insulation of the heaver gauge primary coil wire along with the absence of quality control and/or proper testing at temperature. I suspect that if the manufacturer had proper testing and oven burn-in capabilities, they would likely report a 30 to 60 percent failure rate. I would imagine the only test they do is a static Primary and secondary ohms test and primary to secondary shorts test at ambient.
I have those failed reproduction coils sporadically placed on shelves in my shop displayed as "Garage Art". Some day I may open one up for visual inspection and some fault diagnosis, but then I'd loose my display fun.
Rich
PS BTW those repro coils are no longer being produced as allegedly the suppliers' China manufacturing facility had ceased operations. A shame.
Wow, great post Rich. Thank you. So after all that being said....if you needed a replacement TI coil and couldn’t source a good 207 what would you go with? Not for a trailer queen car but for one that’s occasionally used on the street.
As I did, if I were you I'd use the IC12 until I located a 207. One caveat. I had the upgraded TI modules(K&B variety) in all cars and those are fine with the IC12. Original Delco TI modules may not like the IC12, unsure if they could be damaged so use caution. You could then keep the IC12 in the car for backup if the 207 ever failed.
Many times I get inquiries about TI problems and the owners have no idea what's inside their case. One needs to know so I can advise them when diagnosing faults etc. There are 3 TI circuits, original Delco, K&B(green ckt board) and a California manfacturer(encapsulated metal backed ckt board) sold by several vendors.
I recommend the K&B(green) to all. Most reliable and lifetime warranty direct from them. If you buy from their vendor customers you can call K&B directly for replacement. After you send yours back to them they will send you a new board for cost of shipping.
This is why I always buy 2 per car. One in the tool well for a spare jic. Easy swap out if needed using a screwdriver after removing 3 bolts to get the case out to get it in your hands.
IIRC Dave Fiedler has repro TI coils but not sure where he gets his. Maybe give him a call.
I do have a new upgrade replacement amp board coming from Dave for a spare to keep in the glove box. Suppose it’s worth my while to pick up an IC12 to have on the shelf too. Thanks again.
I do have a new upgrade replacement amp board coming from Dave for a spare to keep in the glove box. Suppose it’s worth my while to pick up an IC12 to have on the shelf too. Thanks again.
The IC12 is a great low cost diagnosis tool but I'd keep that in the car too. I recall Dave gets his circuit boards from K&B. Do you know what is in the case presently?
The IC12 is a great low cost diagnosis tool but I'd keep that in the car too. I recall Dave gets his circuit boards from K&B. Do you know what is in the case presently?
Rich
I haven’t opened it up yet......waiting for the new board to get here. I also ordered a new amp pigtail cord from Paragon to install along with the new board.
This old thread has some photos of the Delco and K&B and how to swap it out. I may have a pdf that DZVette made from the HTML somewhere with more details if I can find it I'll post it up here.
This old thread has some photos of the Delco and K&B and how to swap it out. I may have a pdf that DZVette made from the HTML somewhere with more details if I can find it I'll post it up here.
That is the encapsulated version I mentioned. I have used those as well but prefer the K&B product(warranty, etc). I've done some bench testing using both boards, observing waveforms and signal characteristics and both appear to be similar, however the encapsulated board yield a bit more output wafeform over/undershoot. Not detrimental, just a observation.
This board can be used for other GM products and the install sheet shows various wire color codes. If you don't have that sheet you won't know what goes where. For reference, the 1964 to 1967 Corvette wiring terminals connect as follows:
Term 1 Brown (Ignition Power-via white resistor wire. Also full battery voltage during CRANK via TI harness to Solenoid R Terminal) Term 2 Gray (Distributor Pickup Coil input) Term 3 Black (high current output pulses to coil+, white resistor wire to coil+)
Note that the Module Case is grounded from a Black wire with round terminal from the main TI harness connected to one of the three 1/4"-20 mount bolts.
One issue with the K&B board installation to be aware of. You MUST use slightly shorter screws than the originals which attach the Delco board, along with toothed lock-washers to mount it to the inside case(3 places). If you don't you may get intermittent ignition failure. Their board is a bit thinner than Delco or the encapsulated version. The mount screws ground the board to the case which in turn grounds to the radiator core support and the harness ground lug.
These are original screws. Grind or cut about 1/16" off or use shorter ones for the K&B board. Don't forget the lock washers.
The K&B board has a silkscreen id for each wire.
"DIST GREY"
If the wires appear to be too high bend the terminals slightly to ensure they do not short to the case backplate.
If you're replacing the original Delco board here are some reference photos. The small can(trigger transistor) is held by a flat copper plate so make sure that gets removed as it could short out something later.
Remove this.......
Clean the case internals and coat the rubber seal with a bit of silicone grease to keep moisture out.
I also recommend using a toothed lock washer on the harness ground terminal to the case mount bolt. Make sure the case mount for the ground terminal is free of paint.
TI Coil Differences
