problems - battery or generator????
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 187
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From: Marble Falls/Austin Tx
problems - battery or generator????
I've recently had my mechanic go over my vette and sent it back home with a few adjustments - today i drove it 100 miles and now the car won't start since i put it in my moms driveway - it started fine the 3 times i stopped during the trip - it cranks a couple times fast - then a few slow - then nothing - battery is a year and a half old and is clean with tight connections - any way to tell whether it is the battery or generator (i'm hoping it's just the battery)
i jump started it - let it run for awhile - turned it off for a while and it won't restart
[Modified by clcintx, 11:22 PM 12/11/2002]
i jump started it - let it run for awhile - turned it off for a while and it won't restart
[Modified by clcintx, 11:22 PM 12/11/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 71
From: Gilbert Arid zona
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
Sounds like the battery has a low charge. If you don't drive it often and if you do lots of short trips the battery will not get recharged. The generator also could cause the battery get low if it's not putting out enough juice. Recharge the battery and get the genney checked out.
One and a half years on a battery in a pleasure car is probably a normal lifespan if you don't keep a battery tender hooked up.
I never get more than two years out of a low or mid priced battery here in Az.. I have had very good luck with all the AC Delco's though.
Interstate-- :smash:
Exide-- :smash:
Sears-- :smash:
NAPA-- :smash:
and many more with lifetime warranty that every year you have to return it for a new battery after it leaves you dead in the water with no warning.-- :smash:
One and a half years on a battery in a pleasure car is probably a normal lifespan if you don't keep a battery tender hooked up.
I never get more than two years out of a low or mid priced battery here in Az.. I have had very good luck with all the AC Delco's though.
Interstate-- :smash:
Exide-- :smash:
Sears-- :smash:
NAPA-- :smash:
and many more with lifetime warranty that every year you have to return it for a new battery after it leaves you dead in the water with no warning.-- :smash:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 283
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (GTs 58)
Do you have a solid state or the original points style voltage regulator?
This sounds like a week generator or an improperly set voltage regulator.
If you jump started the car and ran it for at least 5 minutes then the gen. should have charged enough for at least some cranking action. I think the battery is good unless the elctrolyte level is low, have you checked that?
An easy way to check a battery.
-Check electrolyte level (should be to the top of the plates, not the top of cap)
-If low add distilled water.
-Hook to a battery charger with an amp gauge.
-Turn charger on to low setting charge and read the amp gauge, if the battery is good it will have a substantial amp draw, (if it is near drained) this means it is taking a charge. If little or no amp draw the battery is either fully charged or not taking a charge.
If the battery is good then the charging circuit is faulty somewhere. Start with a generator check. I have no experiance with generators so I am assuming there is a charging lead or wire on the generator to check a reading from. Could be something as simple as a broken or loose charging wire.
As for the voltage regulator the shop manual will have the air gap settings for the points and the procedure for trouble shooting.
Mark
This sounds like a week generator or an improperly set voltage regulator.
If you jump started the car and ran it for at least 5 minutes then the gen. should have charged enough for at least some cranking action. I think the battery is good unless the elctrolyte level is low, have you checked that?
An easy way to check a battery.
-Check electrolyte level (should be to the top of the plates, not the top of cap)
-If low add distilled water.
-Hook to a battery charger with an amp gauge.
-Turn charger on to low setting charge and read the amp gauge, if the battery is good it will have a substantial amp draw, (if it is near drained) this means it is taking a charge. If little or no amp draw the battery is either fully charged or not taking a charge.
If the battery is good then the charging circuit is faulty somewhere. Start with a generator check. I have no experiance with generators so I am assuming there is a charging lead or wire on the generator to check a reading from. Could be something as simple as a broken or loose charging wire.
As for the voltage regulator the shop manual will have the air gap settings for the points and the procedure for trouble shooting.
Mark
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 146
From: Chuckanut WA
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
The problem could be either battery or generator or a combination of both. Best way to tell is to take it to a good auto electric shop and let them do a battery load test and a generator output test. Resist the urge to just start replacing components. Your money for the tests will be well spent. Generators work fine on these old cars that don't have too much electrical load but like anything else they require a little attention from time to time. Usually just brushes, bearings, and commutator reconditioning. Batteries are all over the board. I've had some last for 5 or 6 years and others puke after just a few months. Other things to look for might be loose wire connections or ends, bad ammeter, Poor ground connections or missing ground straps. Well that should be enough to think about for awhile. Let us know what you find. Happy Holidays. :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 3
From: Kingston, TN
St. Jude Donor '06
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (K2)
I'm surprised nobody asked what the ampmeter was indicating while the car was running. This should tell the easiest way if the generator is working. Also somebody should have said the problem could be a dragging starter. But I agree, it's probably the battery. :rolleyes:
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 26
From: Florida
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
Cynthia,
I also am a DBA. And, I agree with Vettes1st.
Also, if you just got it back from the shop they may have left a battery terminal loose or the ground from the battery may have come loose. You may want to check those. And, you may want to call the shop and ask them if they did anything with the battery?
You can try to charge your battery or replace it. But, you need to have a good battery before you start looking at the generator or regulator. After you are sure the battery has a charge then check the ampmeter. It should not indicate on the left or neg side.
I hope this helps.
Andy
I also am a DBA. And, I agree with Vettes1st.
Also, if you just got it back from the shop they may have left a battery terminal loose or the ground from the battery may have come loose. You may want to check those. And, you may want to call the shop and ask them if they did anything with the battery?
You can try to charge your battery or replace it. But, you need to have a good battery before you start looking at the generator or regulator. After you are sure the battery has a charge then check the ampmeter. It should not indicate on the left or neg side.
I hope this helps.
Andy
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,897
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From: Moon Township PA
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
How about putting a volt meter on the generator and see what the voltage is? As others have stated, get it running and take it to Advance Auto, Pep Boys, or Auto Zone for a check out.
Gary
Gary
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 52
From: Southern NJ
C2 of Year Finalist (stock) 2019
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
Folks here have offered pretty solid advice. I noticed you worked in the s/w arena in Austin. I also, until recently, worked for a s/w company in Austin -- ETI -- 816 Congress Ave downtown. Has the software economy improved there in the last few months. It had really been depressed with many companies going under.
john lolli
john lolli
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 5
From: Wheaton IL
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
I had this same problem on a regular driver and it turned out to be a bad cell on the battery...... the only way to find this was a load test on the battery as a voltmeter won't detect it.
The car ran fine once it was started but would not crank at all as soon as I stopped it - since a dying old battery will crank for at least a short time I thought my starter was bad. The battry cell failed very quickly. If you can get it to a local auto parts house they usually have a cart they wheel out to check your battery and your charging system - sounds like a bad battery to me.
I had to park on hills and bump start the car for a week!
[Modified by Allcoupedup, 2:18 PM 12/12/2002]
The car ran fine once it was started but would not crank at all as soon as I stopped it - since a dying old battery will crank for at least a short time I thought my starter was bad. The battry cell failed very quickly. If you can get it to a local auto parts house they usually have a cart they wheel out to check your battery and your charging system - sounds like a bad battery to me.
I had to park on hills and bump start the car for a week!
[Modified by Allcoupedup, 2:18 PM 12/12/2002]
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: scottsdale az
Junk the generator install an alternator
generators should be put on the shelf and only good for "shows". Install an alternator with some 1 guage cables for the battery to starter and a 6 guage wire to charge the battery from the alternator. You will never have this problem again!
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 26
From: Florida
Re: Junk the generator install an alternator (Johns 61)
John,
I do not want to be disrespectful, just curious. How can you say it will never happen again if the change is made to an alternator when you do not know what is causing the problem?
I do not want to be disrespectful, just curious. How can you say it will never happen again if the change is made to an alternator when you do not know what is causing the problem?
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 442
From: Southwest MI
Re: Junk the generator install an alternator (Johns 61)
I'd just get it started/running and swing by an Auto Zone..... they can (for free) hook a meter on it and tell you if the batt is shot.... i always use their batteries, the $40 model is just fine..... don't spend any more on a batt. Always check the easy stuff first :). If the current batt is good, then go to a GOOD mechanic and have them check Gen, volt regulator, etc. (it's really tough to diagnose this without being there).
Also, I'd tell the mechanic that just "checked it over " for you, that giving you a car back that his this problem, is not acceptable (what the hell was he checking?!?!)....... he should have found/taken care of this, for you C !
Don't get discouraged, once you have your '61 checked out correctly, and perhaps have a little minor work done, it should be a reliable, fun driver.
Good luck, keep us posted - 66427-450
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: scottsdale az
Re: Junk the generator install an alternator (andy60)
9 time out of ten the problem is caused by 40 year old wiring, corrosion in contacts other common problems, and a generator that really doesnt charge a battery adequately (doesnt charge at all at idle) they are truly ancient. When you put in an alternator you run a new wire to the battery, it will charge. When you run new 1 guage cables to the starter and ground, they will pass the current and not "choke by increasing resistance" when they pass next to a hot starter. When you are finished you basically have new wiring in the charging and starting circuit. Life is good and care free!!
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Re: Junk the generator install an alternator (Johns 61)
I've had many C1's with generators, and never had a charging problem with any of them, with proper battery maintenance (keeping a Battery Tender on it when it sits for weeks at a time); deep-cycle discharges are hard on both the battery (plates sulfating, won't take a charge) and the generator. If all your electrical connections are clean and tight, that's half the battle; the rest is load-testing the battery and checking generator output and regulator function, which any auto electric shop can do in minutes. The generator isn't designed to charge a flat battery - it's designed to keep the battery at full charge while supporting normal electrical loads (ignition, lights, etc.). :yesnod:
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 187
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From: Marble Falls/Austin Tx
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
the new battery fixed it for now - but wonder if something else is the root of the problem - the cables and connectors are all new and in good shape - but i'm wondering about the generator - i'll have to wait until i get it back home next week and take it to my mechanic - thanks
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 442
From: Southwest MI
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (clcintx)
Sounds like a plan, but just be advised that you may be "running off the new battery", without charging..... and when it drains down, C is in trouble again. (In other words, I wouldn't start out on a long trip until I made sure it was charging).
There are some fundimental/simple charging system checks that any competent mechanic can do in 5 minutes that will determine if anymore needs to be done.
Oh, and I agree with JohnZ, stick with the generator (someone local can either rebuild it, or have it rebuilt, if required)
:-)
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 146
From: Chuckanut WA
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (66427-450)
With all due respect alternators are great but they can also have problems. The age of the generator is really irrelevant as long as it is rebuilt when it needs it. Alternators have brushes and slip rings and bearings and regulators that also need attention occasionally. No difference. The difference is in charging capacity and low speed charging capability. I rebuilt my own generator in 1977 when I restored the car and it has run totally without problem for 25 years! That's pretty reliable. I'll do a preventative maintenance rebuild soon to replace brushes bearings, turn the commutator, and undercut the com bar separators and it could well outlive me. Good grounds, clean connections, and a good battery conditioner for when the car is in storage for the off season will ensure reliability and happy motoring. :yesnod: :) :cheers:
Drifting
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 5
From: Brandon FL
Re: problems - battery or generator???? (K2)
I agree with K2. Even if the car's a driver, changing to an alternator changes the whole characteristics of the engine bay as far as originality. Then, you also need to make additional changes if you want your tach to operate.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a traditionalist that is totally against mods, but as far a C's situation goes is probably unnessesary.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a traditionalist that is totally against mods, but as far a C's situation goes is probably unnessesary.
