I found that my transfer slot was out of adjustment, fixed the god forsaken "stumble".

 

Thanks Ken. I did have it running well last year after I learned what timing marks meant what.
I hear you and others that a dial back light would be helpful as well as starting with maybe 6-8 degrees BTDC.

I can do that timing adjustment once I’m certain I’ve sorted the possible plug wire debacle out.

I will look for a dial timing light to refine the settings. I am using a dwell meter which I didn’t have before as it had e-spark.

 

If it were me, I would: Pull the sight plugs on your new carb, and make sure the fuel level is where it’s suppose to be. You have to qualify the carb before you move on.

Next, check the coil. A failing coil can cause all kinds of erratic symptoms that have you chasing your tail.

Next pull the spark plugs and have a look at those. Then install a known good set of plug wires and ensure correct placement and orientation. Set timing at 8*BTDC.

Look for loose electrical connections at the coil, or shielding that is grounding or shorting wires.

 

I tested every Zip braided 1Q66 dated plug wires and while most seemed ok on the ohms meter there were variations. Like two almost exact wires had 12000 and 18000 readings. Other variations were evident but no individual wire was “out of limits”.

There were four wires with questionable crimps at the plug boot end. The folded over conductor extended out under the crimp noticeably back away from the plug end.

I’ve spoken to Moroso and visited them as they are local. They are one of the most reputable plug wire companies out there.
They told me the conductor gets folded over and the crimp should hide it. No tails extending out etc.

I then used the new Moroso set I have, made sure the connections were good and timed it for 7-8 btdc.

The car started right up, choke ran fine, I adjusted the idle and took her out. The car runs better for sure than yesterday but still does break up under harder acceleration but much less so than yesterday at 4 btdc. I really do feel it is improved tho.

I ordered a dial timing light and while I may make another run at 8-10 btdc I plan to mostly focus on using the better timing light to time it at higher rpm.

I think I’m closing in on it. I appreciate everyone’s help. Btw, the new carb in the car as of yesterday was restored by “Phil” in NJ and I spoke with him yesterday. It was bench tested and aside from an idle adjustment I don’t think that’s anything I need to worry about. I think I just need to tweak the timing even more.

Oh, and decide what to do with the crappy Zip wire set. I could fix the crimps at Moroso or just call Zip and see what they say.

 

I guess these are the reproduction BB shielded plug wires - is that correct? IMO those things are junk, mine lasted about two weeks, although I didn’t have nearly as bad of running problems as you are reporting. Mine had intermittent shorts causing sporadic misses.

 

I’m fed up with the poor quality of Lectric Limited’s braided plug wires. I also found variations in ohms tests. But one constant issue is that their ‘66 barrel shield connectors break right off. Very fragile. Then they want you to return the wire so that they can crimp another one on. I finally went against my sworn oath never to do business with Ecklers again, and bought repro end connectors that they sell separately. Oh, and Lectric Limited calls it “operator error” when their connectors snap right off. LOL How ‘bout manufacturing error?

 

Go after the coil next. I’ve had them ohm out good on the bench, but fall on there face under load, or when warmed up.

 

One could always thread new wires (i use 8mm silicone) through the braided sheaths to maintain that unusual look of the braided wires. I did this and only had to crimp on new distributor terminals.

 

Absolutely - that’s what I did with mine and a Tayler wire kit about 25 years ago - still going strong. Pertronix makes a good, black 7mm wire that I understand works very well.

 

They were the repro Lectric wires. Bad crimps on four with the conductor wire exposed beyond the crimp and over crimped too, so the crimp penetrated the sheathing on some. Just sloppy and inconsistent crimps. Resistance varied based on per foot and one wire the ohms reading changed as the wire was either curved vs straight, or pulled straight. That wire was very suspect.

Zip allowed me to send them back and get another set. If it is the same low quality I’ll decide at that point if I play with the crimps or do something else. with the new Moroso wires in it that variable is gone. The coil was new too along with points, condenser, cap, rotor, ballast and plugs. Vacuum checked good.

Right now it’s so much better that I’d do believe another timing adjustment with the dial timing light at cruising rpm may do the trick. That light comes tomorrow.
The car is a lot better from the first start after the initial short at the battery. Everything is new so I really hope the timing just needs a little more advancing.

 

I’m going to be timing the car today with a dial timing light arriving shortly.

I have seen two suggestions for that and wonder if you guys have other numbers?

vacuum blocked, car warmed up.

28 degrees @ 45-4600

or

28 degrees at 4000

One or perhaps both of the above settings should result in maybe 12 degrees at a 650rpm idle, vacuum blocked.
My car is currently at 8 degrees idle vacuum blocked and isn’t happy on harder throttle runs so one of the above settings is obviously a big change that I am hopeful will work well.

Any suggestions are appreciated!

 

When you say your current 8° setting doesn't make for a happy car, what behavior are you seeing? Are you running vacuum at all?

Those are pretty high advances without the vacuum - I'm thinking your total with vacuum is going to be north of 60°. From what I recall from one of Duke's (SWCDuke) powerpoint presentations, total for a big block can be in the low-50s before predetonation occurs.
Ignore the above - misread the figures and somehow thought it was 40°-45° advance!

 

You are at the stage my 427/390 was last summer. You need to get into changing the mechanical advance springs to get your full advance to the 2800-3500 range. The 4000-4500rpm data seems to indicate you have heavy springs installed. If you install lighter springs, you will bring down the rpms where you get the benefit of increased advance. Think about it, how often do you drive your car at 4000+ rpm? By bringing in the advance earlier you will be feeling its effects in the rpm range where you drive it.

I'm sure you have already been advised to contact Lars and or SWC Duke for their timing papers. Just follow their steps and you will be pleased with the results. Also remember that timing affects your carb but your carb won't affect your timing - you'll be doing a little back and forth adjustment with the carb as you work the process.

 

I believe I’ve got it sorted.

I would still like Lar’s or SWC Duke’s tuning papers if possible for minor tweaks.

When I started this project following the initial short I had a cheap timing light. I bought a dwell meter on eBay to complete the points conversion.

Today with a new dial timing light I discovered my dwell was 22 - not the 30 my eBay meter said.

I set the dwell at 30, idle timing at 10 degrees and that gave me 24 on the meter at 3600rpm.

I ran it and it’s almost perfect. Way, way better. At full throttle (hadn’t done that in a while really) I felt a very minor hesitation perhaps and it dieseled slightly at shutdown. I had the idle too high when I left but just figured I’d tweak that after the run.

I just set the idle and added 1-2 degrees more into it so I think I’m at 35-36 total now, 700 or so idle and 30 dwell.

I’ll run it again but the high idle probably was the cause of the dieseling and the additional 1-2 degrees advance will probably be nicer.

The motor feels really strong now with an immediate response. Like I said, I can probably tweak it some but the freakin bad dwell meter (and bad wires, and poorly adjusted carb etc) was confusing the issue.

I appreciate everyone’s help.

 

Dwell is the gap setting for the points and shouldn't change except through wear. 22° to 30° is pretty substantial though obviously operable-able - at 22° they really weren't opening for an adequate duration. If you rev the engine to 4000 or so you shouldn't see the dwell change (maybe a degree or so at most); more than that and I believe you have a worn breaker plate the points mount on.

I'm not following how you had it at 24° (at 3600) then increased by a couple ° and now believe it's 35-36°.

You can send both guys emails through the forum; Lars' direct email is v8fastcars@msn.com tell him you are looking for his timing paper, vacuum advance paper, and Holley tuning paper (if you have a Holley that is). I believe he and Duke have co-authored some info too.

 

With vacuum advance plugged I set timing at 35/36 deg at high enough rpm that all the mechanical advance is all pulled in. With a 4-speed it should be all in before 3,000 rpm and faster than that is OK. Then just let base or initial timing fall where it falls. A dwell setting of 22 deg would upset your motor, I’m not sure if it would be enough to create all your problems but maybe so. But sounds like you just about have it whipped so good work.

 

I think that you have created some confusion with your terminology so that people don't quite understand what you did.

Today with a new dial timing light I discovered my dwell was 22 - not the 30 my eBay meter said.

You don't set/measure dwell with a timing light.

I set the dwell at 30, idle timing at 10 degrees and that gave me 24 on the meter at 3600rpm.

Did you??? Or did you use the "dial timing light" to set the timing at 30? BTW, using the timing light with the dial set to 36, the timing mark on the flywheel should be steady at the pointer on the 0 degree mark at 3,000 RPM with the vacuum advance disconnected/plugged.

When you change the dwell (i.e., point gap) you also change the timing.

IIRC, You get the car to idle at the desired speed and set the point gap through the window in the distributor cap using the dwell meter so that it is about 32 degrees (IIRC) on the meter. The dwell is now set.

Disconnect and plug the vacuum line to the distributor. Loosen its hold down nut. Then use the timing light, set at 36 on its dial, and rotate the distributor until the timing mark steadies at the 0 degree mark.

 

Dan:

Good advice............but OP needs to clearly understand that he must set his maximum 35/36 degrees at a point where the timing advance no longer increases with RPM. For my 67 small block 327/350 HP engine, this maximum point is 5000 RPM. That is a factory number. Most folks will not go this high, and will stop beforehand.........resulting in an incorrect timing number.........and one which could lead to detonation later during operation.

The best scenario is to modify the distributor weights and distributor advance slot so that maximum mechanical timing is "all in" at around 2800-3000 RPM (4 speed car) and is 36-38 degrees total (initial + centrifugal = total mechanical = 36/38 degrees). A number of 35/36 degrees that you advise is a few degrees low for many cars...........but is a very good and conservative number. I prefer 36-38, or even as high as 40 if the car owner knows what he is doing, and it fits his car. But higher than 36 degrees may require adding some special octane racing fuel to the tank........just for insurance.



Larry

 

My breaker plate, points and condenser are new are the Moroso plug wires, plugs, coil, starter ballast, rotor and distributer cap and carburetor by Phil.

My dwell was set using an eBay dwell meter.
It was off and I also had bad plug wires which combined made it run bad after I had changed over to points from E-spark.

The new timing light I have you can dial in the advance and also look at batt, rpm and dwell.

It was on this timing light I measured dwell today at 22. This, with new Moroso plug wires and everything else mentioned.

I set the dwell at 30 thru the adjustment window on the distributer cap. It stays at 30 running the car up.

I now have 35 btdc at 3600rpm and I think it’s 12 at idle. I intend to check it one more time but it seems to run very strong now.

Sorry about the terminology.

 

Make damn sure this number does not increase as you go up to 4000, then 4500 (and possibly higher).

Big block cars are good at around 35-36 degrees MAX as Dan already stated.

Larry