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I'm Mike. I'm new to Corvette Forum.
I own a '64 C2 and have been unable to authenticate my motor.
Data: VIN# 401867S110314 Final assembly early February 64 Engine Pad: 4110314 F0104RC Jan 4, 1964 Cast# 3782870 Cast Date Code: L1663 Dec 16, 1963 327/250 3-sp Saginaw Transmission
Engine stamp pad and casting identification markings appear unaltered. The motor has the square plug forward of the intake manifold verifying it is a Flint machined/assembled block. I'm the third registered owner of a 66k mile car.
The judging manual says all C2 motors were cast in Saginaw, machined/assembled in Flint. The only rare exception are those blocks cast in Tonawanda with a casting #3858180, all being machined/assembled in Flint. My 3782870 block was cast in Tonawanda, machined/assembled in Flint.
NCRS judging deducted 350 points so I got 2nd flight. I contacted Al Greening, he was unable to authenticate my motor because there are no other examples in his database. I am curious if any member owns or knows of a '64 C2 built approximately the same time as mine with a 3782870 Tonawanda cast block. I'm looking at a vin sequence around 10,000-10,500.
I'd remove the pipe plug in the front of the block looking for either a blind hole( option A) or a true hole to the block's innards(option B). if A, then someone stamped the pad with a Flint prefix. if option B, I have no explanation. mike mccagh
I'm not sure if this helps: my '64 has an 870 block cast September 1,1963 assembled in Flint September 19,1963. The VIN puts my car in the ~1,400 range September 26, 1963..... But I can't tell where it was cast. Does that T by the "clock" on yours indicate Tonawanda? If that's the only indicator of where it was cast, I'm probably no help, as mine just has the clock....no "T." Good luck! -Lee
Yes Tonawanda blocks typically have the letter "T" cast somewhere near the cast number and date. In addition the year cast is in two digits, whereas Flint identifys the year with one digit.
Yes Tonawanda blocks typically have the letter "T" cast somewhere near the cast number and date. In addition the year cast is in two digits, whereas Flint identifys the year with one digit.
Well Mike, that makes it a bit confusing then, as my casting date is I163 (first figure is a capital "i")
So correct me if I'm wrong here:
If it's a Flint block, the "I" would represent Sept, The "1" and the "6" would represent the 16th day, and 3 would represent 1963. (Sept 16, 1963)
If it's a Tonawanda block, the "I" would represent Sept, the "1" would represent the first day, and the "6" and "3" would represent 1963. (Sept 1, 1963)
Considering my pad is stamped Sept 19th, (assembly date, right?)
Considering my pad is stamped Sept 19th, if it is a flint block, that means they assembled the engine 3 days after it was cast. Right? (Sounds really quick to me.)
Likewise, if it's a Tonawanda block, it was assembled 15 days after it was cast. Granted, I am ignorant in knowing how expedient they were in getting the new blocks assembled, but 15 days sounds more realistic than 3 days. So I guess I'll go back and see if I can find a pesky "T" hidden somewhere behind all the wires and shielding!
I think we have seen engines built just a day or two after casting, GM did not use a FIFO build system. Does your block have the pipe plug ahead of and below the intake?
Flint did not make castings. Castings were poured in Saginaw or Tonawanda and shipped to Flint for machining/assembly. If you dont see a "T" cast near the cast date/clock your block was cast in Saginaw. It appears you have a Saginaw casting poured Sept 16,1963.
The bock deck and stamp pad were broached (pictured) in the same operation as opposed to being face milled today.
I don't see how that engine could be faked, or why it would be in a 250hp car. Everything is too perfect to not be original. The T cast is the only question in any way. I think the judging manual may not cover every single engine ever made for a 64. I think you were screwed by overzealous judging, but I can't prove anything. If some of the other "exceptions" are accepted, this one certainly should be.
I think we have seen engines built just a day or two after casting, GM did not use a FIFO build system. Does your block have the pipe plug ahead of and below the intake?
Flint did not make castings. Castings were poured in Saginaw or Tonawanda and shipped to Flint for machining/assembly. If you dont see a "T" cast near the cast date/clock your block was cast in Saginaw. It appears you have a Saginaw casting poured Sept 16,1963.
The bock deck and stamp pad were broached (pictured) in the same operation as opposed to being face milled today.
You need to hang around here, Mike! We could certainly use your expertise!
Thanks again for the warm welcome.....My motor was stamped just after the 1963 Christmas holiday break (01/04/1964). It's possible Flint engineering had machined a limited amount of Tonawanda castingings for tryout to determie if they would accomidate Flint machining processes. That way Tonawanda castings could be uaed as be a stop gap in the event Saginaw could not support Flint production.
Also at this time, GM was developing foundry process to change from Ductie to Nodular Iron castings. There were times when some GM foundries were down to accomidate this developement. Tonawanda could have been used to support Flint. That's why I'm looking for anyone that has a '64 motor stamped late '63, early '64.
I have been unable to find any evidence to support this. I do know however, I'm the third registered owner and have a three inch binder loaded with documents to prove owenership and mileage (pictured). This is a low optioned base car with a 3-speed (non syncromesch first gear).
I would not give up just yet, how about some of the other chevy forums like Impala. these cars used flint blocks and there may be evidence of the same Flint machining on a Tonawanda cast block. That stamp looks normal to my eyes but I understand how it's questioned.
... there are no other examples in his database. I am curious if any member owns or knows of a '64 C2 built approximately the same time as mine with a 3782870 Tonawanda cast block. I'm looking at a vin sequence around 10,000-10,500. ....
Mike
I think it will be EXCEEDING unlikely you will find another Corvette around your VIN sequence with a Tonawanda cast block.
Tonawanda to Flint was not done in quantity - only to assure blocks cast at Tonawanda could be machined at Flint.
Your pad stamp looks good so I believe you do have a very unique factory engine. I would look up who heads 64 judging nationally and ask him nicely to review your case. They are all nice people and you will get a correct answer
Your fighting an uphill battle. They say that extraordinary examples require extraordinary documentation. Some have commented that your casting date is BEFORE your stamped number which would be a big problem. You will never get this past any of the recognized “experts.” However I don’t see that simply a close window from your pictures. Also did they use an”I” in casting dates? I don’t think so and that would mean your “L” would be November. Regardless I would just enjoy your car for what it is.
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1964 C2 Motor Authentication
