Yet another side pipe question!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Guelph Ontario
Yet another side pipe question!
Okay so far we have established that all mid years should have side pipes and that they sound and look great. My question is for those that mentioned the side pipes can get a little loud on long trips. Is this with the window down? How bad is it with the windows up? I plan on installing air in my car and driving long distances. I also will be using custom larger pipes with the LT5 motor. Will I need to swallow a couple of advil at every gas stop??
Thanks :seeya
Thanks :seeya
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 5
From: Wheaton IL
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
65ZR1.
I took two 6 hour trips in october in my '65 327-300 with the factory chambered side pipes with the windows up. I have a 3:36 rear end (I think).
It was loud - too loud for the stock radio but it was bearable. No headaches and it was kind of neat because it kind of feels like you can hear every single cylinder firing.
If you are using larger I.D. pipes and they aren't chambered (producing some muffler effect) you will probably be way louder. Headers?
Allcoupedup
I took two 6 hour trips in october in my '65 327-300 with the factory chambered side pipes with the windows up. I have a 3:36 rear end (I think).
It was loud - too loud for the stock radio but it was bearable. No headaches and it was kind of neat because it kind of feels like you can hear every single cylinder firing.
If you are using larger I.D. pipes and they aren't chambered (producing some muffler effect) you will probably be way louder. Headers?
Allcoupedup
Moderator
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From: Dove Mountain Arizona
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
I've got a roadster and the exhaust noise is actually more tolerable with the top down than up. I think it's actually a bit quieter all closed up but the resonance wears ya out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 2
From: The Garden Spot of the Garden State
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (MasterDave)
...i think what matters most is the environment around your car...if you're driving down the open road with a song in your heart, looking for wildflowers in colorado :D it will be much more tolerable because less sound is reflected back at you....if you're on da turnpike, doing 70 in the right lane and some blue hair is on your butt and you're surrounded by 18 wheelers, i think you'll get a measurably louder sound through reflection...
given that, it is my impression that the coupe is one HELL of a lot louder than the roadster - some of that is due to bb vs sb but i don't think my sb sounds like a typical sb because of the heads (exhaust ports)....dunno
[Modified by Kid_Again, 12:25 PM 1/17/2003]
given that, it is my impression that the coupe is one HELL of a lot louder than the roadster - some of that is due to bb vs sb but i don't think my sb sounds like a typical sb because of the heads (exhaust ports)....dunno
[Modified by Kid_Again, 12:25 PM 1/17/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 62
From: Redondo Beach CA
C2 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (Kid_Again)
I also have a convertible, and I think that the wind buffeting is worse than the side pipe noise. Even so, I am sure that it can get to you on a long drive. I have taken a few all day trips (LA to Phoenix, Tucson to LA, LA to Monterey, etc.) and I would be deaf and senseless without ear protection. I have the foam ear protectors we got at work (for use in the enviromental lab), but you can buy these, as well as other types at your local drugstore.
Since conversation is all but impossible at 75 MPH (or 100 :rolleyes: ), you don't lose much. You can still hear with the ear protectors in, it just cuts the bulk of the noise. I keep two sets in my glove compartment at all times!
Since conversation is all but impossible at 75 MPH (or 100 :rolleyes: ), you don't lose much. You can still hear with the ear protectors in, it just cuts the bulk of the noise. I keep two sets in my glove compartment at all times!
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,681
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From: Central Arkansas
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
I second the ear plugs. On a long trip in a coupe this may be all that saves your hearing. Also, you might check with some of the aftermarket side pipe manufacturers. Several of them are experimenting with different baffles inside to try and quiet them down. I tried a pair from Allens but didn't notice much difference. I have "read" of an outfit called Stainless Works in Chagrin Falls, Ohio (purchased through Chicago Corvette) that were much quieter. This is from Don Sherman's book about his experience in restoring his 67 427 Roadster.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Close to DC
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (Mike Smith)
If your running headers the sound may be a little more mellow. I cover a lot of continious miles in my conv. and it has never been a predominated problem. Throttle position, speed/rpm are always in the equation. When I run beside a jersey barrier it a pretty authoritative sound, I can imagine what it's like in a car beside me, I love it. :D
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Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: houston, texas usa tx
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
Those stainless works pipes are quieter than the stock ones. I've got a set on the roadster now. I have gone 5-6 hours on the highway with no big problems. But I do still use the ear plugs usually part of the time to just gut down on the decibels.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 52
From: Southern NJ
C2 of Year Finalist (stock) 2019
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
The coupe with sidepipes is definitely loud. I am usually driving with the driver side window open. Even on cold days there is enough heat generated inside the car to allow it.
The ear plugs are a great idea -- should keep a set in the car.
john lolli
The ear plugs are a great idea -- should keep a set in the car.
john lolli
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Likes: 25
From: Rochester Minnesota
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
I've driven my coupe (427/435) over 100,000 miles since I bought it new. My hearing is still pretty good although it is loud in the car. I also owned a 67 convertible with the 427/390, for a while. I added side exhausts to that. It was much quieter inside and out than the coupe. Some of that is due to less resonance in the convertible than the coupe. However, a significant part is also the difference in cams between the 2 engines. The 435 hp cam opens the exhaust valve earlier, when there's a lot more pressure in the cylinder---especially at driving speeds. Thus, there's a much louder exhaust noise.
There was really a big difference between these 2 cars when you were standing a few feet away and someone else would "wing" the engines a little.
I've always thought that, when I get around to redoing the interior of the coupe, that I would put some sound-deadening material in the compartment behind the seats.
Back when both the car and I were much younger, there were several times that we spent 600 + miles together in a day. Back then, I never found the sound (it's not noise to me) annoying.
[Modified by 427435, 4:51 PM 1/19/2003]
There was really a big difference between these 2 cars when you were standing a few feet away and someone else would "wing" the engines a little.
I've always thought that, when I get around to redoing the interior of the coupe, that I would put some sound-deadening material in the compartment behind the seats.
Back when both the car and I were much younger, there were several times that we spent 600 + miles together in a day. Back then, I never found the sound (it's not noise to me) annoying.
[Modified by 427435, 4:51 PM 1/19/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Central Arkansas
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (427435)
427435, you have a good point. My 66 427 has a wild cam in it, probably about the same as a ZL1 cam. The amount of cam definately makes a difference in noise level. :)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,077
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From: The Garden Spot of the Garden State
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (427435)
...you raise a good point about sound insulation....'way back when i did my '97 pathfinder, i read some articles that talked about the "correct" way to sound insulate a vehicle...contrary to the marketing hype, the recommendation was to apply just enough of the sound absorbant (for example, dynamat) to make a difference...although it's important to do the doors, for example, that's not all that good because a LOT of sound radiates right through the window glass which is rigid and an excellent conductor..these articles stressed the need to sound deaden the floor and roof....any experts out there :confused:
..if i remember correctly, it ain't so important to deaden at the point of sound as it is to do so at the multiple points of noise conduction...dynamat the windows - i don't think so :banghead:
[Modified by Kid_Again, 6:36 PM 1/21/2003]
..if i remember correctly, it ain't so important to deaden at the point of sound as it is to do so at the multiple points of noise conduction...dynamat the windows - i don't think so :banghead:
[Modified by Kid_Again, 6:36 PM 1/21/2003]
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Likes: 25
From: Rochester Minnesota
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
In another life, I was involved with reducing the sound inside off-highway equipment cabs. The 3 methods involved reducing the sound at it's source, reducing the transmission into the cab, and absorbing whatever got into the cab.
Really do want that side exhaust sound and look, so let's talk about the last 2 options. We found that an underlayment that consisted of 2 different rubber compounds separated by a thin layer of lead really cut sound transmission through the floor as well as doing an excellant job of absorbing sound when glued to the sides of the cab. Been away from that business for almost 20 years but I always wanted to track down some of that material again and put it under my Corvette's carpet.
That'll probably have to wait until I retire-------------and then I won't be able to hear well enough for the "sound" to bother me.
Really do want that side exhaust sound and look, so let's talk about the last 2 options. We found that an underlayment that consisted of 2 different rubber compounds separated by a thin layer of lead really cut sound transmission through the floor as well as doing an excellant job of absorbing sound when glued to the sides of the cab. Been away from that business for almost 20 years but I always wanted to track down some of that material again and put it under my Corvette's carpet.
That'll probably have to wait until I retire-------------and then I won't be able to hear well enough for the "sound" to bother me.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 146
From: Chuckanut WA
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (427435)
A good marine supplier should be able to furnish the foam/lead deadening mats as they are extensively used in boats to dampen engine compartment noise. It's fairly expensive but very effective and requires only a thin pad thickness. Works great under carpeting. :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,334
Likes: 2
From: San Clemente Ca.
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
Reminds me of that old expression "If its too loud, your too old!"
In a vert its fine, in a coupe I could see a possible resonation problem
at certain speeds / RPM's. Have found this in other cars through the years.
Usually occurs at my normal crusing/fwy speed. (Murphy's Law)
Not sure if insulation would help if the noise "resonates" through the car.
Some cars/engines have had this addressed from the factory.
BMW 2002's use a Resonator between the manifold and rear muffler to eliminate that
"frequency/drone" that occurs at the magic speed/rpm.
I am willing to bet that's the reason many hate side pipes on Midyear coupes.
Its not too loud, but resonates you into borderline maddness.
:lol:
Foam plugs work great. Have to wear them at work on a daily basis,
working graves now for a refueling outage, so I have to also wear them
during the day when I sleep. Not quite sure what I am saving my hearing for,
as it seems I wear 'em 24-7? :skep:
[Modified by 396 RAT, 10:03 PM 1/21/2003]
In a vert its fine, in a coupe I could see a possible resonation problem
at certain speeds / RPM's. Have found this in other cars through the years.
Usually occurs at my normal crusing/fwy speed. (Murphy's Law)
Not sure if insulation would help if the noise "resonates" through the car.
Some cars/engines have had this addressed from the factory.
BMW 2002's use a Resonator between the manifold and rear muffler to eliminate that
"frequency/drone" that occurs at the magic speed/rpm.
I am willing to bet that's the reason many hate side pipes on Midyear coupes.
Its not too loud, but resonates you into borderline maddness.
:lol:
Foam plugs work great. Have to wear them at work on a daily basis,
working graves now for a refueling outage, so I have to also wear them
during the day when I sleep. Not quite sure what I am saving my hearing for,
as it seems I wear 'em 24-7? :skep:
[Modified by 396 RAT, 10:03 PM 1/21/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 789
Likes: 13
From: Winter Springs FL
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (65ZR1)
In his excellent book, Corvette 427 - Practical Restoration of a '67 Roadster , Don Sherman talks about this issue. He mentions that he replaced his '67's old pipes with new ones from an outfit in Chagrin Falls, Ohio (fitting that there would be Browns fans there) called Stainless Works.
He says (on page 162) that the new pipes "were, on average, nine decibels quieter throughout the RPM range". He then goes on to say that, "Dennis Laughlin, proprietor of Stainless Works, ...reported that his pipes could be made even quieter." BTW, Sherman used a sound meter to measure noise in levels of 500-rpm steps with the car parked in his driveway and the meter placed nine feet to the side. The comparison was made against a set of aftermarket pipes from a different vendor - which he deemed no quieter than his old, fried/corroded originals.
I hope this helps, but obviously you may need to do some more research regarding Stainless Works. Please let us know what you find out as I am looking for a mid-year vert project car to "restificate" and that info may come in handy later. If I happen upon a 65-67 I will put pipes on it as well. No pipes for 63 or 64.
[Modified by Islander21, 11:29 PM 1/21/2003]
[Modified by Islander21, 11:30 PM 1/21/2003]
He says (on page 162) that the new pipes "were, on average, nine decibels quieter throughout the RPM range". He then goes on to say that, "Dennis Laughlin, proprietor of Stainless Works, ...reported that his pipes could be made even quieter." BTW, Sherman used a sound meter to measure noise in levels of 500-rpm steps with the car parked in his driveway and the meter placed nine feet to the side. The comparison was made against a set of aftermarket pipes from a different vendor - which he deemed no quieter than his old, fried/corroded originals.
I hope this helps, but obviously you may need to do some more research regarding Stainless Works. Please let us know what you find out as I am looking for a mid-year vert project car to "restificate" and that info may come in handy later. If I happen upon a 65-67 I will put pipes on it as well. No pipes for 63 or 64.
[Modified by Islander21, 11:29 PM 1/21/2003]
[Modified by Islander21, 11:30 PM 1/21/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (Islander21)
Application of Dynamat makes a BIG difference - my Grand Sport body shell was much thinner and lighter than the production body, and I knew from building many previous cars (and OEM NVH work) that damping the "drumming" of the panels would go a long way toward making the cockpit livable in an essentially "race" cockpit. I lined the whole inside of the firewall, floor pan, rear compartment, and roof with Dynamat before I trimmed out and carpeted the interior, and it was an enormous improvement over other GS's I had driven that were just carpeted over the 'glass. I had also covered the lower half of the engine side of the firewall, the entire bottom side of the trans tunnel, and the first 24" of the bottom of the floor pan with Thermo-Tec to deal with radiated heat, and the combination of Thermo-Tec on the outside and Dynamat on the inside made the car (relatively) civilized in the cockpit. :thumbs:
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 559
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From: Guelph Ontario
Re: Yet another side pipe question! (427435)
Thanks to everyone who replied. I will look into the quieter pipes by stainless works. I liked the idea of the 3 inch pipe from sweet thunder though. I think it better suits the LT5 motor. One thing is for sure.. Im going to put them on and Im going to buy lots of sound insulation!
:chevy
:chevy