...please remember that all i know about electricity is that it comes out of the wall..........

...so please bear with me :withstupid: and type very SLOWLY....

OK, OK (REAL nervous here :cry: )....so i'll be putting an MSD 6A in both cars (which run the same distributor setup up - vacuum can and original pertronix ignitor)...despite an email from MSD Tech Support which says the ballast resistor is not needed, i saved an older thread from here and the overwhelming consensus was to keep the ballast resistor inline with the MSD.....well, inquiring minds need to know.....

....W_TH_F*** is a ballast resistor and W_TH_F*** do i need one???...can you please respond in the following manner so i can build up the logic....assume you're an electron coming out of the battery, what happens to you on your way to the spark plug.....now that the laughter has died down over in colorado :lolg: , yes i can read a wiring diagram so it apears to me that the ballast resistor can be bypassed at the ignition switch - why ever for????

..i wouldn't know Ohm's Law if the cop wrote me a ticket for it....and i DON'T think that PV=NRT helps me here :rolleyes:

 

Remember Kid there is no such thing as a stupid questions, even from the Gerriatric set. The ballast resistor is a white ceramic device near the coil, what it does is to "drop" the voltage down from 12 volts. The coil does NOT operate on 12 Volts, it operates on less voltage, and I am not sure exactly what that voltage is. I am sure Duke could tell us.

I have used an MSD box before and I supplied a full 12 volts to the MSD box by NOT using the ballast resistor. If memory serves me correctly, you need a full 12 volts going into the MSD.

 

Good advice above. Right on target. Just remove the resistor from the circuit and from the firewall. MSD will most likely NOT work with much lower than a FULL 12 volts. Also be careful where you put the unit. They don't like heat and they "Buzz" a little so inside the car can be probelematic. I hid mine up in front of the rad support and it is outta sight as well as staying cool. You cannot even see it with the hood open unless ya look down between the hood and the support.

You need to lengthen the two leads that go to the battery terminals and the one to the 12 volt switched source if you move the bocx that far away from the distrib. but it is no big deal. If you want to hide the lengthened wires I came up with a little disguise method. Respond back and I can fill you in if you decide to got hat way.

 

I did laugh over here in Colorado, but not AT you. :D

 

Kid,

Just a little further (and probably useless to you) info. As originally wired, the ballast resistor is bypassed during starting (via a separate contact in the starter and the ignition switch). This is to supply the coil with as much voltage as possible, since the starter will decrease (load) the available voltage out of the battery down to 9-10 volts (or lower) depending on engine/starter/wiring condition and temperature.

Always get a kick out of people when they tell you to do just the opposite of what the manufacturer says. Like the good info above, follow MSD's info and eliminate the ballast resistor. But you may want to keep it in place physically, just to "fool" with the dummies always looking to be critics.

Good luck with your wiring job.
Plasticman

 

"...please remember that all i know about electricity is that it comes out of the wall'

While we are all laughing about electricity and NOT laughing at Kid. I once heard a piece from some stand up comic who as part of his routine made the case that there is no such thing as 'creating electricity'. His premsie, delivered with hillarious skill, was that a finite amount of electricity exists in the world. "electricity can be neither created or destroyed. The electric companies have created a VAST conspiracy wherein they just keep selling the same "electricity" over and over again. It (the electricity) comes into our houses thru the meter on one of the two wires leading into our houses. The electricity then lights your house or runs your vibrator battery charger or whatever. It leaves your house via the other wire. It heads off to the electric company where it turns around and returns later to perform some other task. I guess ya had to be there but I mean it was really funny. For those who have ever seen "The Caveman" stand up guy you know what I mean about how funny these guys can be.

 

AH HA!!!!...so, the primary side of the coil works on something LESS than 12 volts.....NOW I UNDERSTAND!!!!....and that's the reason why the resistor is bypassed at STARTUP!!!!! :rolleyes: .. to make sure you've got the juice to get rollin!!!!........OH, OK!!!!!...where the f*** is a little picture of a light goin' on over some little idiot's head??????....ok, got it - thanks very, very much guys, EVEN though you did NOT draw the little electrons going down the wire for me :leaving:

...now i also undestand WHY that freakin' little ceramic booger gets as warm as it does - it's seeing 12 volts, needs to drop it down all the time and the resistance goes off as heat!!!!!!.......hot diggity :hurray: ...the CLOUDS HAVE PARTED!!!! :D

..theOman...roger that on the placement of the MSD, i've picked out a spot in the air stream behind the grills, just a bit below the running light wire grommet...should be easy in install because i'm pulling both grills...


...Geriatric????......now, i may be AARP eligible ( i consider myself an entry-level senior) but the supermodels who actually do the work at Kid's home don't seem to mind one bit..heck, they're all exhausted :D , need to find a new bunch with more endurance

finally, i DID see that show about the Caveman...yup, pretty damn funny..."hunting" vs "gathering" :rofl:

thanks again guys!...hey where did heidi klum go? - she's not done with anwering my mail!!!!! :thumbs:

 

With the OEM ignition, the ballast resistor (or resistance wire on later cars) feeds reduced current to the coil primary (+) terminal so it actually operates on about 7-8 volts, to increase point life and keep from overheating the coil windings; during cranking, the coil is fed a full 12 volts from the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid to get the best spark possible - when you release the key back to "run" after it starts, the coil is fed from the ignition switch, with the current reduced through the resistor (or resistance wire), and operates continuously on 7-8 volts.

The MSD box gets its operating power direct from the battery through the heavy red and black cables, and the connection to the existing ignition switch circuit (smaller red wire from the box) just turns the box on and off; this circuit (in the car wiring that originally went from the ignition switch to the coil + terminal) either has the ballast resistor in it, or is a resistance wire, and with the MSD system, no longer feeds the coil - it turns the system on and off, and the (+) and (-) coil terminal wires now come out of the box (the orange and black small wires) instead of from the ignition switch and the distributor in the OEM setup. The trigger signal from the distributor now comes to the box through the white wire, where the original OEM trigger signal went from the distributor to the coil (-) terminal through the little black wire from the points (or the wire from the Pertronix module to the coil [-] terminal).

If MSD sez they want a full 12 volts to turn the box on and off, just run the red wire from the box to the same terminal on the resistor as the wire from the ignition switch (bypassing the resistor windings), or remove the resistor and connect the MSD small red wire directly to the ignition wire that used to connect to the primary side of the resistor. The original wire that went from the output (reduced current) side of the resistor to the OEM coil (+) terminal is no longer used, as both coil terminals are now fed directly from the box (orange and black wires).

Reddy Kilowatt :thumbs:

 

"finally, i DID see that show about the Caveman...yup, pretty damn funny..."hunting" vs "gathering"..................when you need a shirt ya GO BUY A SHIRT!

That had to be the best show by a stand up comic that I have EVER seen. "The sacred circle of the dirty laundry"......the video of him going thru the laundry basket selecting a shirt to wear.....Two guys meet after not seeing each other for years one says "You still driving that Piece Of S_____".......Two guys fish all day without saying anything other than "Got another beer" ......Running out of chips during the card game, who has to fill the bowl..........it just went on and on. You gotta be married to get some of it. the guy is a freakin MASTER of seeing what goes on in everyday life and makin people laugh at it.

For those unfortunate enough to not know what the hell me and Kid are talking about check out this web site. If you are after a good night out with your girlfriend or your wife, hell take em both they will both have fun, check out this web site aboout "Defending the Caveman"
http://www.cavemania.com

If you want to hide the wires and keep a stock apperaing under hood area just drill two holes, one in the plasric along side the rad support and one just above the battery. Take some 3/4 heater hose and snake the MSD wire harness extender wires you are making thru the hose. Put the hose on the wheel side of the inner fender and attach it to the inner fender with wire ties . Use the same holes in the inner fender as the stock wire ties that hold the radiator to expansion tank overflow hose onto the fender.


[Modified by TheOman, 2:20 PM 1/20/2003]

 

Best way to describe what's going on is this analogy:

The battery is a pump with 12 volts of head. The pump (battery) is churning the electrons through the electrical system. The resistor restricts the flow of the electrons kind of like a valve restricts flow and decreases head. Maybe that would help explain the electrical aspect. Seems like you figured it out so far as the purpose for the ballast resistor though.

 

Well John, that remark certainly gives us insight into your age... :lol: :rofl:

 

Yea JohnZ, next you will be calling yourself "Little Bill"!

I'll explain that little joke of Com Edison's later, when the plum wine I am sipping now is gone completely. Or if your about my age, you may just remember it from back in the early fifties.

Plasticman


[Modified by Plasticman, 10:27 PM 1/20/2003]

 

...guys, my continued thanks...that's the level of detail i needed...

...reddy kilowatt :skep: ????

...OK, OK, i'll contribute to the geriatric memorabilia also...listening to NPR yesterday and they announce that the actor who played Sargeant Preston of the Yukon died....geez louize, i'm getting old, but again, the supermodels don't mind....

...sky king, crusader rabbit, beanie and cecil, the lone ranger....but i digress....i suppose i could post this in the threads about the barrett-jackson auction but i guess i am finally impressed with the numbers the midyears are pulling in (hey, only took me 5 years to wake up :rolleyes: )......in some discussions locally, it appears that some enterprising gentlemen are making a substantial fortune by buying the better midyears, doing some work on them and then shipping them overseas - the UK and Japan seem to be hot....hey, fine by me because my cars automatically become more valuable but a bit sad to see, really :seeya


[Modified by Kid_Again, 6:51 AM 1/21/2003]

 

It is OK John don't let em get on your case. Some of us remember Reddy Kilowatt.

 

Reddy Kilowatt ............Bucky Beaver's Friend.... Brusha....Brusha..Brusha....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Good Thread. I'm an EE, I design computers (still learning cars though), and I learned something new today...

 

And the Green Hornet (and Kato), The Shadow (Lamont Cranston), Stella Dallas, Sky and Penny and the Songbird, not to mention my all-time favorite, the Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote (meep-meep) :lolg:

 

...HEY OMAN!!!.....TELL me you used to watch the Dumont network :D

...that was definitely BEFORE my time...the show of shows, the jackie gleason hour....HEY!!! -> i read a lot of history books :thumbs:

 

Our first TV set when I was a kid (1950) was a DuMont - had an 8" screen, 8 control ***** on the front, and about 30 tubes in it; when it went on the fritz, I got elected to take all the tubes to the drugstore and check them in the "tube-tester" (remember those?), and buy a new tube if I found a "bad" one. If that didn't work, Dad used to call "Manny", the TV repairman (remember those?) and he'd fix it. One network, four hours a day of programs, news lasted five minutes, no Speedvision - you had to be there :cry

 

JohnZ,

My father built his own TV in 49/50 and we were the first on the block to have one. All the kids from the "block" use to come over and watch it. Remember Captain Video, Howdy Doody, etc. He was also the local "Manny" (worked as a TV repairman after hours - his regular job was driving buses for the CTA - Chicago Transit Authority). He is 90 and still operates his HAM station daily! When they moved (when he retired in 1972), we threw out a garage full of TV parts, including about 25 picture tubes (you never know when you might need one in that size!). Kind of like why I keep 5 SBC engines in my basement. Apple does not fall far from the tree.

Plasticman