In 1976, I ordered a shortblock #3970166 from my dad's Chevy dealership. It was a replacement for 63/64 365 or 375 hp Corvettes. It's got a small journal steel crank, forged 11-1 TRWs, solid cam with timing gear set. The block casting number is 3959512 and there is another series of numbers of "E- 7- 5" on the right side near bellhousing. On the pad is CE5N29936. I know that the CE stands for a replacement engine but does anyone know anything about the other numbers. I still have it and it has less than 500 miles on it. I'm considering selling/trading it for $$??

 

The E75 says the block was cast May 7, 19x5, could be 1965 or 1975, probably the former.

3959512 is a 327ci 2-bolt main.

Can't help you with the stamping, except to say the CE5 indicates it was a warranty replacement engine (as opposed to an over-the-counter purchase) assembled in 19x5... I think the rest of the number is an internal code used by the engine plant to designate a particular engine, and the specs for the engine were probably on that internal documentation rather than a configuration code being stamped on the engine pad. The number was used to track warranty expenses (by the Chevy bean counters) against the original 5/50 warranty

Value is probably minimal, ie, a generic 327 engine.



[Modified by waynec, 11:55 PM 2/25/2003]

 

I believe the numbers following the "CE" are simply an internal sequence number. As Wayne said, the CE denotes warranty replacement. The only significant value to the block would be to someone with a late 65 who could "lose" the pad stamping. In the case of the right car, it could be desireable to have a factory assembled short block with all the right internal parts for the HP application.

 

62Fuelie, the engine casting number is not correct for a 65 Corvette, so "losing" the pad stamping won't do it for a 65 owner trying to clone a correct engine

 

You are correct, of course. I didn't even look at the casting#. just the date. As you said, just a generic 327.

 

waynec, my 327 is casting 3959512 also. it is a four bolt main 327 forged crank 11:1 piston solid lifter over the counter ce block(CEB1279). this engine has the breather hole in the block. this CE engine was purchased OVER THE COUNTER.


[Modified by 66c60, 10:28 AM 2/27/2003]

 

That's a strange one....I've never seen a factory assembled 327 with 4 bolt mains. I thought they were all 2 bolts.

BUT......I don't doubt it could have been built as a replacement engine. The 427 hanging on an engine stand in my garage has been in my possession since 1980. My buddy was a parts manager at a dealership and they were told Chevy was dumping all the old 427 shortblocks. He ordered 10 of them but only got one. The price? $200!!! He let me buy it.

It was marketed as a shortblock for a 427/425 or a 427/435. It is based on a 454 block with the lower cylinder notches as all the last 427 were. It has a steel crank, 11.0 compression closed chamber forged pistons with a TRW number on one side and a GM number on the other. It has 3/8" rods in it, which are correct for a 427/425, but they were not the 3/8" "Dimple Rods" like should have been there. The 7/16" rods didn't appear except in L-88, ZL-1 and LS6 stuff. The real kicker is it has 2 bolt mains!!

Someone sure would have been mad if they had brought there car in and got this motor and lost their 4 bolt stuff.

But maybe GM knew something..that poor 'ole unbalanced dude has endured 20+ years of me torturing it with untold runs to the 7500 range, .725 lift rollers, two stages of Nitrous, dropped valves, numerous heads, etc etc. Couldn't have asked for a better motor and it's still a std bore and std crank!

Bad thing is my wife thinks they all ought to last that long!
This 540 better behave itself...it'll be another 20 years before I get another!

JIM!

 

dear jim, the 4 bolt main 327's were a '68 item.

 

Can you read me your blocks "dot clock" near the bellhousing?

 

In what books do you find the info on CE engines? I have Corvette by the numbers, but I can't find any reference to CE engines there.

Thanks.

 

No factory-built 4-bolt production 327's have ever been documented, and none have ever been used in a production application. Who knows what may have been done for service engines :skep:

 

Stranger things have happened...but I've never seen a factory small journal 4 bolt block either. Even the first 302's were 2 bolts I think. I don't think they got 4 bolts until '68 when they got large journals.

And since you have a breather hole like the two bolt blocks..who knows? Maybe GM made some large journal 302 blocks into 327's, but that still doesn't explain the small journals.

Ya got me!

I'm going to have to let the historians handle this one.


JIM :crazy:

 

Hi guys,

No facts to back up this theory, but I have heard that there were some "heavy duty" 327's built for large trucks and 18 wheelers. Some people referred to these engines as Big Block 327's. Could be an urban legend, and I know that there is nothing like a BB 327, but maybe it was called that due to the 4 bolt mains.

Okay, so everybody take a shot at this theory!!!


:withstupid:

 

John Hinckley can give the best explanation of the CE block story. I think Chevrolet started using these numbers in the late sixties on all over-the-counter short/long block assemblies. I don't remember seeing any stamping on bare blocks sold in the seventies.

I think you've got a neat 327. I'd like to own it. However, I didn't see your name or any contact information like an e-mail address in your profile. Please tell me the price you want for the short block and how to reach you.

Jerry Bramlett
Mobile, AL
(251) 478-4003


[Modified by jerrybramlett, 5:32 AM 3/4/2003]

 

Try this link to the Engine FAQ section of our CRG (Camaro Research Group) site for "CE" information - http://www.camaros.org/engine.shtml#ReplacementEngines

Prior to the 5/50 Powertrain Warranty program, service engines generally had blank pads. When the 5/50 engine replacement numbers began to go out of sight (4 times as many as original estimates when the program was "sold" to Management), the GM Finance types implemented the "CE" identification scheme for engines and transmissions replaced under the 5/50 program so they could identify precisely what the 5/50 costs were, separated from the usual customer-paid or over-the-counter-sale replacement engine and transmission business.

The "CE" engines were supplied as short-blocks, with all the bolt-on parts to be re-used from the failed engine; they were ordered by part number so they had the same innards as the failed engine they were replacing, but that part number only appeared on the dealer's invoice, the shop order, and on the crate the engine was shipped in - it didn't appear anywhere on the engine. All you can tell about a "CE" engine without tearing it down is the casting date on the block (May 7, 1975 on yours), and the calendar year it was built (the first digit followoing the "CE" on the pad). 1975 or 1976 was when the 5/50 liability period expired, and many service engines built after that time still carried the "CE" identification, and some had blank pads. :thumbs:

 

The only possible addition to this is the possibility that when they did build the engine, did they stamp any codes into it? My old CE block read "CE8 63680 HV" which I interpreted to mean that it was built to 327/350 specs (not that my car even has TI or Auto...).

 

Dunno - after the first year of "CE" engines, the engine plants sometimes departed from the original direction given them to identify the engines, and the numbers after the first "year" digit varied a lot, and some had added characters, some separated by spaces. I expect the people who can best explain these variations are either taking "dirt naps" or using walkers by now. :rolleyes:

 

john z, went to find part numbers to prove the four bolt production 327. well...the medium journal crank is a '68 item...and the '68 327 shortblock has it's exclusive part number, but it doesn't say it's a four bolt main block. then how to hotrod smallblock chevies lists the medium journal crank and the four bolt block together in the heavy duty 327 listings but as you said that doesn't mean chevy built it....... so i don't have a part number for a production 4 bolt 327 unless it's3933044 68 corvette w/sp. h/per. (327) taking the four bolt block alone, why do you suppose the vent hole next to the distributor? CEB1279 C 5


[Modified by 66c60, 1:19 PM 3/5/2003]

 

3933044 is the part number for a "partial engine" (short block less crank) to "service" the '68 Corvette application - no block casting number shown. I have the blueprints for the '68 Corvette 327/350 block (3914678), and it's a 2-bolt.
:cheers: