Loose knock-offs
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Central Arkansas
Loose knock-offs
I got my 66 out today for a spin and got a reminder on the need to check knock-offs periodically. After getting back I was dusting the car off and getting ready to put it up when I decided to check the marks I put on the spinner and cone to watch for knock-off loosening. Grabbed one of the spinners and it was loose and rocked back and forth about 1/4 inch. It probably took most of a full turn before I had it good and tight again. Two of the other wheels were loose enough to go up one or two notches for the pins. None of the pins sheared but it served as a reminder that I need to replace them with hardened steel. Seems that I remember a suggestion to look for lumber nails of the same diameter and cut pins out of them. Is that right? :steering:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
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From: Texas
St. Jude Donor '09
Re: Loose knock-offs (DansYellow66)
dan-not sure how yours came loose if the spinners were tight when you put the pins in. Shouldn't be able to rotate if the pins are the correct diam and in the two half circles that they go in. I use steel roll pins instead of the st'd ones that you order out of the big name catalogs.[ if you ever break one off, it's nice to be able to drill them out] I do belong to the knockoff coming off club, not a pretty experience but mine was caused by negligence on the reinstall when I had a local garage repack the wheel bearings the first week I had it. Marking the cone and spinner still the best advice anyone can have. If you run knockoffs, check them.
often, often, often as before you start out each time.. : :cheers: :seeya
often, often, often as before you start out each time.. : :cheers: :seeya
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Central Arkansas
Re: Loose knock-offs (Jimbo64)
Jimbo64 - I'm a little confused by that too. The other two were still snug but the knockoff would move when hit with my hammer so I tightened them on up after pulling the pins. Guess that was just the threads on the adaptor and the spinner getting use to each other over time. How the other one got as loose as it was is kind of startling. I only have about 1500 miles on the wheels over a period of years and I can only guess the threads had some burrs or sharp edges that burnished in under pressure from the tightened knockoff and then some more from movement as they became slightly loose. :smash:
[Modified by DansYellow66, 3:10 AM 9/28/2003]
[Modified by DansYellow66, 3:10 AM 9/28/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Washington Michigan
Re: Loose knock-offs (DansYellow66)
The basic physics involved here that keeps the wheels tight is "clamping force" between the conical mating surfaces of the spinner and the wheel; if those surfaces or the threads on the adapter or the spinner are dry or galled, some portion of the torque applied to the spinners when you wail on them is wasted in trying to overcome friction, and doesn't contribute to developing clamping force between the spinner and the wheel. A film of anti-seize on the mating conical surfaces and on the adapter/spinner threads will eliminate galling and thread friction so the spinners will develop clamping force as you tighten them.
I safety-wired one ear of the spinners on the Halibrands on my Grand Sport to a hole drilled in the wheel spider for insurance and as a quick visual check, drove it hard, and never had one loosen up (after using anti-seize and beating hell out of them to make sure they were good and tight). If you double-click on the image below, you can just barely see the safety wire from 2 o'clock on the spinner ear to to the wheel at 3 o'clock.
:steering:
[Modified by JohnZ, 11:41 AM 9/28/2003]
[Modified by JohnZ, 11:42 AM 9/28/2003]
I safety-wired one ear of the spinners on the Halibrands on my Grand Sport to a hole drilled in the wheel spider for insurance and as a quick visual check, drove it hard, and never had one loosen up (after using anti-seize and beating hell out of them to make sure they were good and tight). If you double-click on the image below, you can just barely see the safety wire from 2 o'clock on the spinner ear to to the wheel at 3 o'clock.
:steering:
[Modified by JohnZ, 11:41 AM 9/28/2003]
[Modified by JohnZ, 11:42 AM 9/28/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Greenville, Indiana
Re: Loose knock-offs (DansYellow66)
If your wheels will rotate radially on the adaptor (even with the spinner loosened) your wheels will never stay tight. The adaptor pins have to be a tight fit in the wheels. Otherwise acceleration and braking forces will loosen them. If you use hardened solid steels pins to counter-act this condition, you will have a mess getting the pins out and undoubtably damage to your threads when they do get loose.
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From: Retired Suffolk County Police Dept NY South Carolina
Re: Loose knock-offs (MikeM)
If your wheels will rotate radially on the adaptor (even with the spinner loosened) your wheels will never stay tight. The adaptor pins have to be a tight fit in the wheels. Otherwise acceleration and braking forces will loosen them. If you use hardened solid steels pins to counter-act this condition, you will have a mess getting the pins out and undoubtably damage to your threads when they do get loose.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Ct
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Re: Loose knock-offs (DansYellow66)
I agree with John Z re proper spinner/cone contact and torque. I have been driving my original K/O wheel car for years - trouble free - by just following simple mounting proceedures and torque application. I must say the the Portka K/O tool makes it a snap to get the torque right every time without concern for damaging the spinners or my body work and I do watch the tape before every drive just to be safe.
[URL] :iagree:
[Modified by 66BBCoupe, 7:45 PM 9/28/2003]
[Modified by 66BBCoupe, 8:53 PM 9/28/2003]
[URL] :iagree:
[Modified by 66BBCoupe, 7:45 PM 9/28/2003]
[Modified by 66BBCoupe, 8:53 PM 9/28/2003]
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Southwest MI
Re: Loose knock-offs (MikeM)
If your wheels will rotate radially on the adaptor (even with the spinner loosened) your wheels will never stay tight. The adaptor pins have to be a tight fit in the wheels. Otherwise acceleration and braking forces will loosen them.
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Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Central Arkansas
Re: Loose knock-offs (66427-450)
I haven't noticed any play or movement of my wheels on the adaptor when installing them. The play was between the knockoff and the adaptor. It had worked on the pin to whittle it down enough to let the knockoff rotate a degree or two back and forth on the adaptor. I have used anti-seize compound on the adaptors since new. Still a mystery how it worked it's way that loose because they were last mounted about two years ago and knocked down pretty tight - or so I thought. :steering:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Texas
St. Jude Donor '09
Re: Loose knock-offs (DansYellow66)
Dan, when I bought my car it had aluminum pins in the repro-knockoffs. After the problem I had losing the right front wheel- coming loose, I replaced them with the steel roll pin-[home depot] which will fit tightly in the holes and if I have to they can be easily drilled out. Can see where the aluminum in time would wear, also breaks easily when being pulled out, [ I know -supposed to come out easily but we all know how that goes] J :cheers:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Texas
St. Jude Donor '09
Re: Loose knock-offs (66BBCoupe)
66bb- what is the story on the "portka tool", Is this a torque wrench, where did you get it. Do you still have to beat on the spinners or can they just be tightened to a torque spec? anyone else out there have or use this tool. J :cheers:
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Southwest MI
Re: Loose knock-offs (Jimbo64)
66bb- what is the story on the "portka tool", Is this a torque wrench, where did you get it. Do you still have to beat on the spinners or can they just be tightened to a torque spec? anyone else out there have or use this tool. J :cheers:
the spec i got from Dennis was based on "inches" of rotational movement, measured at the spinner/cone interface, after all clearance is removed.
IF you have a decent adapter/wheel fit, and follow his instructions, your wheels will be fine....... now if you are using the car as a street driver you still need to check once and a while, but i never had a problem (and that's without those stupid pins).
anyway, thats my experience
[Modified by 66427-450, 3:13 PM 9/30/2003]
Burning Brakes
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From: Ct
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Re: Loose knock-offs (Jimbo64)
66427-450 has it right - also - if you scroll up to my previous post the pic shows you my simple "check by the tape" system. Part of my "pe-flight" check before every ride is to glance at each tape to make sure they are in line. I just use masking tape - cut to desired size and cut at the seam. My spinners have never moved. :iagree:
