Would they put a Jun 62 327 CE block with Nov 64 and Jan 65 heads together with a 360 intake? I've been looking for a 327 block to put into my 65 that supports 360HP dated correctly. All the other numbers support a Jan65 replacement block for the 327/360. This engine will work for now if the answer is yes until I can find a more correct block. The block has a legit CE stamped pad.

Also where can I find water pump dates/numbers online?

Last question is can a 68 water pump work on a 65 engine?

Thanks in advance and best.

 

Not sure what you're asking or who they are. A CE block or engine is a factory replacement block or engine. NOT original! I doubt very seriously that GM(they?) put the heads you mentioned on the engine. Only way to tell what you have is to disassemble and check the pistons and cam.

 

I am not sure what you are asking either.Are you asking if GM made a CE engine with '62 block and '64 heads I would bet not,but if you are asking will they work together as far as function I would say yes

 

If you're talking about a fuelie engine, the `64-`65's were rated at 375hp (the only 327 Vette engines rated at 360hp were `62-63). Though the block casting #'s were the same, I can't see anyone accepting a `62 block as "correct" fot a `65. I also doubt that a 2-3 year old short block would have been installed under warranty. Depending upon the build date of your car, the heads may be original but nothing else. Your shortblock might have been a CE replacement for a `62 or `63 but it wasn't a replacement for a `65.

 

I believe CE blocks first appeared in 67 or 68 as a result of the 5/50 warranty program. Gave teh accountants a way to track warranty spending. John Hinkley (JohnZ) can provide all the particulars.

 

Here's a CE engine on ebay that sounds similar to yours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=34202

The seller lists the block as a 72, with 1965 heads. The engine ID websites I've seen list the 3959512 block as a 62-67 block. But elsewhere, I've seen it referred to as a 72 or 73 block, when it is a CE block. I have a CE block in my garage dated K 19 3, and I always wondered whether it was a 1963 or 1973 block.

 

Again, the CE designation wasn't used until the advent of the 5/50 warranty of the mid 60's.

 

I need to have a look at the stamped pad number to see if it appears factory. I suspect this is a 65 engine. But it is possible for GM to have sent the dealer a 62 replacement block although I don't know if this was how CE blocks got into cars. I'm not certain if they would send a block, short block or long block. Or send even a crate engine assembled for that cars needs. It would seem simpler in those days just to send a replacement block. It's even possible the dealer had one around and put the 65's crank yada into the 62 CE block. I would love someone to educate me on how CE blocks got into cars.

It cannot be a 72 block since the crank is small journal and I'm not certain but I believe the last year for the 327 was 69. Someone correct me on the latter but I know the last year of the small journal 327 was 67.

I do know strange things came out of Detroit. Numbers and parts didn't always match even in new cars from what I hear. You could get a Buick with one Buick and one Chevrolet head yada.

 

At least one particular block casting number was used as a CE block from 62-67.

This block from the Mortec site was appartently one block casting number associated with early sixties CE blocks:

3959512....327...62-67...2...Was also used for some "CE" replacement blocks.

That doesn't read it was used all those years necessarily. I would like to know more about them though.

I'll try to get JohnZ to chime in though. Thanks.

 

John is very knowledgeable about these things. I'd still like to hear from more of you though.

Here's the meat of his message regarding that engine:

MIKE,
LET'S DO THE SMALL BLOCK FIRST. THE INTAKE YOU SPEAK OF IS PROBABLY A 461(LAST 3 NUMBERS) ALLUMINUM HI-RISE FROM A 350-365HP 327CI VETTE OR CHEVELLE 1964-65 MODEL. FOR THIS TO BE, THE HEADS WOULD ALSO BE 461 CASTINGS. THE BLOCK IS THE OUTCAST. THERE WAS NO BLOCK I KNOW OF THAT WAS USED ONLY ON 350-365HP MODELS BUT A 3 YEAR WAIT TO BE BUILT IS A BIT MUCH. ESPECIALLY ON A ENGINE THAT WAS A TOP DOG IN IT'S DAY. IT'S PROBABLY A REPLACEMENT FOR THE ORIGINAL THAT MET AN UNTIMELY END.

I didn't tell him it was a replacement CE engine, but he figured it out. That tells me it might not be that uncommon to get an older block. I can't get him on the phone but I'll discuss it with him as soon as I can to ask him directly.

Until then I'd be glad to get more info on these.

 

GM replacement water pumps have the same casting number from 1962-1972 and will fit 327 and 350 cu in. Original pumps have a different casting number and the date stamped on them.

 

Like many others, I bought new Chevrolet engines to repair Corvettes during the seventies. It was cheaper in many cases than rebuilding the original block.

The term "crate engine" was not used back then. The Chevrolet parts department sold "fitted blocks" and "partial engines". A fitted block came with pistons, rings, and bearings. A partial engine was a short block without an oil pump/pan, timing cover, or balancer. Both types of blocks were stamped with a "CE" number. I don't remember how the bare blocks were stamped. I never bought any of those.

You could also buy an engine assembly. This was a long block with an intake, heads, oil pan, balancer, and valve covers. These were stamped with a CE number too. I only bought a few of these when GM had a big engine clearance sale around 1980.

I never tried this, but I was told you could order currently available GM engines from the engine plants. In other words, if you wanted a 1974 Corvette 350 during 1974, you could buy one through the Chevrolet parts department. I believe this was possible during the sixties too. The examples of these engines that I've seen were stamped just like the assembly line versions but without a VIN.

I currently own a 327 "partial engine" that was sold new over-the-counter in 1966. It has no stamp on the block pad at all. I think this is typical of the blocks sold before 1969.

 

Thanks for your help. Hopefully it will be a working replacement pump!

 

"CE"-stamped engines didn't start until 1968, and faded away about 1975; they used freshly-cast blocks and heads - anything cast in '62-3-4-5 that's stamped "CE" is a re-stamp. As Jerry said, they were furnished to dealers for 5/50 warranty replacement as either short blocks or as fitted blocks (neither had heads); all the other parts were to be transferred from the failed engine, or ordered separately in addition to the "CE" block if necessary. "Long Blocks" (with heads) or complete engines weren't listed in the Parts Book, but were available by special order (but not for warranty replacement - just for over-the-counter direct sale).

 

That's exactly what I needed to hear. I hope I didn't sound as if I was doubting anyone but I just needed to be able to put all the data together in a way I understood it. I believe I have the beginnings of that thanks to all. I was told I was born in Tennessee but I believe it must have been Missouri.

And so the search goes on. Sigh. but

 

Nothing wrong with that!! Missouri's where the C-2's all came from to begin with!!

 

I'll just become an adopted son!

 

I talked with Chevrolet today. Only third hand information as I did NOT talk with a techie or ancient wise throwback to the 60s.

The engine 3959512 was used from 62-67 both in production and as CE engines. They aren't always stamped CE. They can be bought bare OTC but were more as replacement blocks delivered in multiple configurations. They could not answer the question as to whether that particular block was done as a replacement or just bought OTC.

They did say that CE2N2301C was a Chevy replacement engine sent from the Flint plant which I found interesting. Apparently the 2301 somehow dates the month and plant. However, I could not get an answer as to how they used the number to derive that information.

I hope I'm not boring everyone and if you want a tale of my continuing education on CE engines send me a PM every month or so.

 

Just a further data point. I had a CE block in my '66 when I bought it. The car was a theft recovery and had lots of non original parts, includiung a Muncie from a '67 Corvette that I still have. I recorded the block info:
Casting # 3892657
Date: F297 (June 29, 1967)
Stamp: CE8 63680 HV

Heads and intake were "about right" for the car, so I guess the engiine blew early in life and the short block was swapped out. Heads were (have these on the shelf) 3890462 dated E196 and F96, and the intake (also on shelf) is a 3890490 dated 5-17-66j.

The car has a low ROM redline tach, so I've assumed it was a 327/300 car originally, but from the parts and "HV", either the rebuild was to 1965 L79 specs or it might have been an L79 car.

 

My 65 has a CE block, CE9B34762. It is an 010 block with 186 heads all date coded 69. I pulled the pan and it has a forged 350ci crank. If anyone can tell anymore about the engine from the CE number I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Tom