If you would like to see some more of my JUNKS Check the web site and "My Corvette Photos" on the left. There are some very interesting unusual and unique toys that I keep in my sandbox to play with.

 

REALLY THE ONLY WAY TO TRUELY SOLVE THIS PROBLEM...

I MEAN TRUELY SOLVE THE PROBLEM....

WOULD BE THIS...

TAKE ORGINAL MUSCLE CAR/OR EXCELLENT CLONE...
EXAMPLE 1970 LS6 CHEVELLE OR 1969 ZL1 CAMARO

OR L88 CORVETTE.

PUT MODERN DAY WHEELS AND TIRES ON IT... LETS JUST 17 WHEELS AND TIRES WITH DRAG RADIALS ON THE BACK.

RUN IT ON A DYNO THEN TUNE IT ON THE SAME DYNO... TO GET MAX NUMBERS... 3 TIMES DOWN THE TRACK...(SEA LEVEL AND GOOD AIR PLEASE)

AFTER THAT BASE LINE.... GO TO gm PERFORMANCE PARTS.... ORDER YOUR CRATE 2006 LS7 505 HP MOTOR...

SWAP OUT THE LS7,LS6,ZL1 OR L88

DROP IN OUR BRAND NEW 2006 505HP LS7 INTO OUR LATE 60'S EARLY 70'S CHASIS

(WARNING... WILL PRBABLY NEED TO CHANGE FRONT SPRINGS OR FRONT SUSPENSION TO AVOID FLOATING FRONT END) KITS ARE AVAILABLE TO SWAP AND KEEP TH400 OR M22 TRANNY (NOT SURE ON M22)

BASELINE ON THE DYNO...THEN TUNE THE CAR ON THE DYNO...

TAKE IT OUT TO THE TRACK AND AND SEE WHAT SHE DOES....

FEW IMPORTANT NOTES....

FIRST TO KEEP IT FAIR... WE CAN RUN BIG TUBE HEADERS ON BOTH MOTORS IN OUR TEST VEHICLE... AND WE COULD ADD WEIGHT TO 2006 LS6 505HP CAR. TO KEEP CURB WEIGHTS EQUAL.


THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO KILL THIS DEBATE... AND STILL ... I AM SURE SOMBODY WILL DEBATE THE TEST ANYWAY....

BUT IT WILL SILENCE ALL BUT THE TRUELY FOOLISH !!!!

 

The debate is over the most powerful stock vette not most powerful motor..

And Ironcross you want to sell the 69 camro?

 

THEN BORROW THIS VETTE... YEAH RIGHT !
http://www.rogerscorvette.com/inv/special/69c_zl1.jpg

http://www.rogerscorvette.com/spots/feb98/spot.htm

AND PUT SOME REAL TIRES ON IT....

AND RUN IT AGAINST ANY NEW ZO6

 

If your speaking of the Red SS 396 Camaro, it`s a 68 not a 69. And yes I could, I have two more.

 

This is all very interesting....


But can that ZO6 drive throught the wheel spinner/fart muffler part of town and set of car alarms idling down the street in 4th.

My wimpy 502 can through mufflers.... It's great fun.

 

Oh yeah, Chuck! Chuck H. is how I know him. I've only met him once (at a Santa Clara Corvettes meeting) but "Shark Racer" formerly "Pacin' CA" (Steve) has met him a few times. Chuck lives here in San Jose, and while I never saw his L88 clone, I have heard plenty of stories about it. I'll see if I can get Steve to chime in.

Chuck sold his L88 clone

 

Do the Camaros have the blinding Aircraft Landing Light modification done to them too? No thanks to that idea, you're going to get me into a bunch of trouble when I get my Stingray on the road

 

Originally Posted by sxr6
Ironcross is that Black 62 yours too

Now I'm really envious


Checked the pics out!
But are you happy???


Never mind I can guess

 

How about we just take a new Crate LS-7 (505hp) & put it on a engine dyno, then take an old crate LS-7 (590+) & put it on a engine dyno!!

 

We need a REAL world Dyno and track run to TRUELY make a case.

Real world dyno= motor in the car dynoed to the rear wheels...

I think HOTROD or CARCRAFT should do this test....

 

Yes I own a late model turbocharged rotary rx-7. Hardly "rice".

Read the link I posted and get back with me.

 

. Reposting the same story over and over won't make it truth.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...9&postcount=98

 

I watched Speed channel this AM and they had a 427 Copo Camaro with headers. It ran high 13's...After tuning, changing jets, air cleaners, adjusting the valves, with the headers it ran low 13's!

 

 

The only motors we are saying make as much, or more power, than the current LS-7 is the L-88 and ZL-1. Stop posting articles where a 396 / 375 hp went 14's..... no kidding. BTW, to the best of my knowledge Chucks' car was STOCK other than headers when it made 483 at the wheels.

Was that 13's on bias ply tires, or slicks ?????

 

I'll see if I can get Chuck to chime in here ...

 

You know, I never looked at gross ratings like this before, but bear with me. It looks as if the gross ratings are what you could call "potential engine power."

Potential as in, this is what the engine actually does make, however, we've strapped all this restrictive junk on it that takes power away from the potential. Superchargers even take away from the potential power, but they give back more than they take.

 

Those motors didn't make as much power as the new Z06 motor period. Now if you start modifying them what's the point?

You don't like the 13 and 14 second articles? The 13 and 14 second 1/4's tell you those motors aren't making big hp #'s you guys want to claim.
I watched the Speed channel this morning and a 427 Copo Camaro with headers and tweaking could only run 13's.

Chuck's car was a clone, NOT a real L88. I have the ORIGINAL DYNO SHEET lying around here as Chuck posted it. I have pictures of the heads off the car and the runners are POLISHED. It has all sorts of little tweaks.

I posted an ORIGINAL, REAL Zl-1 dyno and look at the hp it made. You guys need to quit living in fantasy land.

 

Mr. Turbo Rotary is all wet!

My L88 engine was bought over the counter at Spedding Chevrolet in Denver Colorado. The factory pistons, rods, cam, heads, valves, springs, etc. were all used. I found a numbers correct 69 L88 intake manifold that was absolutely unmodified. Neither the runners in the factory open chamber aluminum heads nor the manifold were ported or polished. I did uses steel wool and some emory cloth to hand polish the chambers to keep carbon from sticking to them as easily. Anyone who thinks this mod would even make 5 more hp is probably getting their stuff from JC Whitney along with magnets on fuel lines, tornado air vanes for intake, etc.

I did purchase a new 4150 mechanical carb before I heard about Holley’s factory rebuild option, if it even existed at the time. I ran the carb as it came from the box other than using the same jetting numbers as my manual said the L88's used.

I disassembled the motor because I noticed a slight scratch on the one of the cylinder walls. One of the rings was broken when the factory installed the piston. I replaced the ring with a new set for that piston and made sure that all the others were OK before I re-assembled the motor using my Chilton's manual for torque specs and clearances. For the record I taught Smokey Yunick and Grumpy Jenkins everything they know in my two car garage.

My tuning consisted of a timing gun and the seat of my pants before my dyno session. I used 36 degrees total advance by 3000 rpm as the factory suggests and filled the car with 100 octane fuel sold at a local 76 station down the road. The price then was about $4.25 per gallon when regular was about $1.50 per gallon.

The only difference between my cars specs and one coming down the assembly line in St. Louis was that mine had the factory design off road headers similar to the Kustom Headers supplied to Chevrolet as an over the counter option in ’69 and/or delivered with the car in the trunk to be installed at the dealership. Kustom is no more, but Hooker has a set that is the same 2.125” primary tubes into 4” collectors. Any new owner of a L88 that didn’t immediately install headers would have been looked upon as crazy. Open headers was what the car was designed for with the factory cam. All 69 Vettes, big block and small had 2” exhaust pipes. For the L88, this was like a sprinter breathing in through his mouth but only being allowed to exhale through his nose.

My motivation for this project was to personally experience what was to me a legend, not just build a big hp motor which would have been much easier to do. When I started this project, chassis dynos were quite rare. But once it was finally finished, I took the car to the Speed Merchant in San Jose where they use a DynaPak chassis dyno. As it happened, there was another guy who also had a blue 69 L88 that was a factory original with 4.56 gears and the Kustom factory headers. His engine had been rebuilt using all factory spec parts and the ZL1 cam which has slightly higher lift and was thought to be used on some of the L88 engines in 69 as this was the latest cam for the new open chamber heads. Guys ordering this car would have been knowledgeable of the latest and greatest of the factory performance parts. This was a time when the factory was the source for the best parts, the aftermarket really hadn’t taken off yet. Anyway, his car had a slight miss at high rpm and only made about 475rwhp without mufflers. Mine did not miss and made 483rwhp without mufflers. What I was also very pleased with was that with the JCL muffler inserts I still made 477rwhp and the car was much quieter.

The new LS7 engines are incredible, but from the factory they are making about 450rwhp. With headers they are making about the same as my L88 which is pretty amazing on two counts. One that such incredible power levels are back once again. I for one never thought that we would see them again. Number two, that such power can be made and still get 26 mpg on the highway and idle all day at 800rpm. Horsepower is really pretty easy to make. Gas mileage together with smog requirements are not.

With simple mods, the new LS7 is well into the mid 500’s at the rear wheels. With simple mods, so would the L88. Head porting, modern roller cam, modern intake or FI would have easily added over 100hp. The biggest difference today is in tire technology. Old tires couldn’t begin to put all the power an L88 had down to the ground. Tires are a pretty simple thing to change, but if you insist that the L88 had to have the skinny bias belts, the L88 will lose. But that is like claiming a modern skier is better because he can beat a 1968 Olympic Ski champ because the old champ can’t use new skis. Let the new ZO6 run with headers and the best tires, likewise the L88. That would be a real test.

I recently put a new 402 LS2 with AFR225 heads along with a modest cam and headers in my 2002 ZO6. The car now has phenomenal power. I made 481rwhp on the same model DynaPak dyno at Synergy Motorsports. My original LS6, rated at 405net only made 350rwhp. The car now has virtually the same feel as my much lamented L88. In more than a small way I fell like I have my L88 back, but with air conditioning, power steering, cruise control, cd stereo, power windows, incredible handling & braking, etc. But my L88 was not as streetable as my new 402. But if I didn’t live with city driving, the L88 was a fine package for the open road.

I don’t know what Mr. Turbo’s agenda is. I leave that for others to decide. I don’t really care. To anyone else who is interested, I just explained what I had done and why. I have owned 5 Vettes and numerous other high performance cars. I satisfied my desire to experience what the L88’s were like to drive. I don’t consider it any difference in performance to create an L88 clone vs. one built as an L88 from the factory. If you do, fine; but, the very close numbers made by a factory car dynoing with mine show this to be not very realistic. But then some may believe that the guy with the factory L88 was a liar and rebuilt his car with extra special pieces. Convincing such doubting Thomases is not worth my time.

Chuck