4-speed over-rated?
Thread Starter
7th Gear
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
4-speed over-rated?
I have to write about an experience I had last night.
Took a test drive in a '73 4-speed C3 for sale.
(Years ago I owned a '79 Auto C3, and thought I wanted a 4-speed this time)
Let me get right to the point, the car seemed to run fine, except the 4-speed was a cumbersome disappointment. It just wasnt fun to shift gears in this car.
Is it just me? I drive mostly automatics now, although I have owned many stick-shift cars over the years (of various makes). The last stick I owned was a Honda Accord, I guess I was expecting a similar "smooth shifting" vehicle. I should also mention that I babied the car since it was a test drive, I suppose it might act differently if you really "slammed" through the gears, but to be honest I dont drive my cars that hard. (I also know not all C3s shift exactly the same, depending on clutch, etc, etc)
Soooo, I'm looking at automatics again, am I missing something????
Took a test drive in a '73 4-speed C3 for sale.
(Years ago I owned a '79 Auto C3, and thought I wanted a 4-speed this time)
Let me get right to the point, the car seemed to run fine, except the 4-speed was a cumbersome disappointment. It just wasnt fun to shift gears in this car.
Is it just me? I drive mostly automatics now, although I have owned many stick-shift cars over the years (of various makes). The last stick I owned was a Honda Accord, I guess I was expecting a similar "smooth shifting" vehicle. I should also mention that I babied the car since it was a test drive, I suppose it might act differently if you really "slammed" through the gears, but to be honest I dont drive my cars that hard. (I also know not all C3s shift exactly the same, depending on clutch, etc, etc)
Soooo, I'm looking at automatics again, am I missing something????
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by MikeFullerton
I suppose it might act differently if you really "slammed" through the gears, but to be honest I dont drive my cars that hard. (I also know not all C3s shift exactly the same, depending on clutch, etc, etc)
Soooo, I'm looking at automatics again, am I missing something????
Soooo, I'm looking at automatics again, am I missing something????
Are you a "Stock" kind of guy?
Here's an idea. Buy the Vette, replace the trans with a T5 from a Mustang...cheap. It'll be a much smoother trans, and give you a whole new gear. Then, replace the clutch master and slave with Hyd. assist units from later model Chevy trucks.
I have not done any of this, but asked a lot about it. It's one of the better 5spd upgrades you can do without spending thousands of dollars. It'll shift better, and be more fun to drive.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Both mine are 4 speeds..one thing to take into consideration is the linkage spring clips/washers wear over time..this causes slop and eventually vibration...I just replaced my originals a few months ago on the 78 after 27 years..it shifts very smooth now...the 69 M22 Hurst is very smooth as everything is fresh...of course I'm biased against slush boxes...
Rich
Rich
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,334
Likes: 4
From: Midland TX
I have a 72 454 w/ 4 speed and I like the way it shifts. It is not the best shifter in the world but I like going through the gears. Makes it seem more of a sports car.
I had a C5 with auto and I hated it. It just didn't seem right. I sold it and bought an '03 with 6 speed. Love it.
Manuals can be cumbersome if you are trying to manage a drink while driving and shifting. It depends on what you are looking for.
What exactly was disappointing?
Remember - if it is the stock shifter it is probably 33 years old.
I had a C5 with auto and I hated it. It just didn't seem right. I sold it and bought an '03 with 6 speed. Love it.
Manuals can be cumbersome if you are trying to manage a drink while driving and shifting. It depends on what you are looking for.
What exactly was disappointing?
Remember - if it is the stock shifter it is probably 33 years old.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Denver Colorado
Mike..
You are comparing oranges to apples.
I had recently an '79 L82 Automatic and said I wanted a older 4-speed car so I can shift myself. I bought my current '73 LS4 4-speed.
These cars are yes both Corvettes and C3's but they are like night and day.
The '79 was an suvivor never restored excellent driving and riding Corvette. It was great on the highway, started everytime and everything on the car ran smooth. 53K miles on the car.
The '73 is a restored body on with twice the miles of the '79 with 107k miles. The car is nose heavy in the turns, much more power and very jerky in shifting the manual tranny.
I had them both at the same time, but decided one had to go due to my limited garage space.
I miss the '79 L82.
I know it's a hard decision and I guess that is why some Corvette owners have more than one Corvette.
Good luck
Peter
I had recently an '79 L82 Automatic and said I wanted a older 4-speed car so I can shift myself. I bought my current '73 LS4 4-speed.
These cars are yes both Corvettes and C3's but they are like night and day.
The '79 was an suvivor never restored excellent driving and riding Corvette. It was great on the highway, started everytime and everything on the car ran smooth. 53K miles on the car.
The '73 is a restored body on with twice the miles of the '79 with 107k miles. The car is nose heavy in the turns, much more power and very jerky in shifting the manual tranny.
I had them both at the same time, but decided one had to go due to my limited garage space.
I miss the '79 L82.
I know it's a hard decision and I guess that is why some Corvette owners have more than one Corvette.
Good luck
Peter
Last edited by Greekmn2; Oct 5, 2006 at 12:52 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 2
From: Oak Ridge NC
I love driving mine! Shifts just fine whether you are driving normally or jumping on it. The only PIA is stop and go heavy traffic.
I have driven sticks in Volvo's, Hundai's, etc. There is a big difference. Technology has changed, but I still love my '70 Muncie.
I have driven sticks in Volvo's, Hundai's, etc. There is a big difference. Technology has changed, but I still love my '70 Muncie.
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 4,930
Likes: 11
From: AnyTown NJ
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
I had a new 68 Camaro 4sp muncie.....hated the linkage and swapped it with a Hurst.....have to say it was fun to bang thru the gears back then 
.....but now just let me put it into D. 
BTW, you'll never have the smooth shifting action you had with your Honda unless you do a trans swap.
.....but now just let me put it into D. BTW, you'll never have the smooth shifting action you had with your Honda unless you do a trans swap.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I had to learn how to drive a dump truck once that had 21 gears...it was atually 7 gears is an over drive for each one. That was a pin to drive. 1-7, then shift, 8-14, then shift, 15-21. Stop and go traffic was like a dentist visit. Got passed all time. I did NOT like driving that big hunk.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,362
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio TX
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
I had to learn how to drive a dump truck once that had 21 gears...it was atually 7 gears is an over drive for each one. That was a pin to drive. 1-7, then shift, 8-14, then shift, 15-21. Stop and go traffic was like a dentist visit. Got passed all time. I did NOT like driving that big hunk.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by SHAKERATTLEROLL
There is a trick to it lol. You do not need to use all of the gears all of the time. Depending on how much weight you have in it. You can skip gears or even a few.
I know...but for the bulk of my drive I had a full load of gravel. I was going to college, and was helping the struction team with the power plant project. They thought it would be cool to teachme how to drive it, so I learned on the way to get the gravel, and I drove back.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Kalway
The PITA the 4 speed is to shift is why so many automatics were ordered in those years. 
I really didn't like any of the C3 4 speeds I drove, either.
The autos always ran perfectly.
I really didn't like any of the C3 4 speeds I drove, either.
The autos always ran perfectly.
Manuals rule over the slush boxes...
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I knew a guy in an old chevy Van that used to go to the tracks and clean up, because his auto van would hit the same 1/4 mile time every run, and guys in cars with 500+ HP and a manual would break out of their own time so often...He won EVERY time he competed.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
Originally Posted by rihwoods
The automatic vettes were ordered by lazy people vice the sports car buyers....
Manuals rule over the slush boxes...
Manuals rule over the slush boxes...
Auto trans. are where they belong, in my Tahoe and Blazer. My 'Vettes are all sticks...gotta have something for my left foot to do.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Originally Posted by MikeFullerton
Soooo, I'm looking at automatics again, am I missing something????
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,821
Likes: 204
From: Lincoln CA
My 69 has the stock Muncie M21 close ratio box and the stock shifter. It shifted awful when I first bought it. Turned out the shifter was coming off of it's mounting on the frame. Even tightened, it's not a very smooth shifting experience. Still, I think the clunky shifter and the cramped quarters and the noise are all part of the vintage Corvette experience. I definitely wouldn't have bought the car if it were an automatic.
BTW, I've run my 00 Z28 Camaro A4 at the drags several times and have beaten some manual transmission cars when they "miss a shift" (Mustangs). Sometimes it's obvious they did miss a shift because they drop out of the race, and sometimes it's obvious that they are just using that as an excuse for getting beat. Modern automatics are able to shift more efficiently than manuals in quarter mile racing and they post more consistent results. They are even superior to the driver manually selecting the gears. The A4 will idiot override the driver at a lower RPM if you are manually shifting the tranny than if you just stick it in "(D)" and munch the throttle. My best time and speed are 13.44 @ 107.43mpg with 2.73 gears.
BTW, I've run my 00 Z28 Camaro A4 at the drags several times and have beaten some manual transmission cars when they "miss a shift" (Mustangs). Sometimes it's obvious they did miss a shift because they drop out of the race, and sometimes it's obvious that they are just using that as an excuse for getting beat. Modern automatics are able to shift more efficiently than manuals in quarter mile racing and they post more consistent results. They are even superior to the driver manually selecting the gears. The A4 will idiot override the driver at a lower RPM if you are manually shifting the tranny than if you just stick it in "(D)" and munch the throttle. My best time and speed are 13.44 @ 107.43mpg with 2.73 gears.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
I knew a guy in an old chevy Van that used to go to the tracks and clean up, because his auto van would hit the same 1/4 mile time every run, and guys in cars with 500+ HP and a manual would break out of their own time so often...He won EVERY time he competed.
1 - bracket racing with computerized automatics is more consistent (if not sissified)
2 - the hole in the ozone layer has allowed radiation to destroy most male macho hormones, thus only a few real men still exist, and these obviously drive stick shifts.
You automatic guys have to wait for your tranny to decide to shift
...
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by rihwoods
From the Chevy forum:
1 - bracket racing with computerized automatics is more consistent (if not sissified)
2 - the hole in the ozone layer has allowed radiation to destroy most male macho hormones, thus only a few real men still exist, and these obviously drive stick shifts.
You automatic guys have to wait for your tranny to decide to shift ...
1 - bracket racing with computerized automatics is more consistent (if not sissified)
2 - the hole in the ozone layer has allowed radiation to destroy most male macho hormones, thus only a few real men still exist, and these obviously drive stick shifts.
You automatic guys have to wait for your tranny to decide to shift
...