So the story starts out that I bought my vette with plans of an LS# and 6 speed swap. Everything else was not as important. The overall goal of this project was to combine the new with the old. I want at least 500hp flowing through the car with a maximum of 650hp (how I will get that, is not yet determined, but I do have my ways, haha), so I wanted all other major systems to match this high mark.

Option A)I originally, wanted to go with a VB&P Performance Plus system, Steeriods rack and pinion, and a few other goodies to support the LS# and 6speed (like blue printing the diff). I was unsure what to do about the trans mount and how to fit wider tires.

Option B)After much consideration, I eventually decided that my best route was to get an SRIII tube frame with a C4 rear suspension, Cr dana 44 Diff, C5 front suspension narrowed rear frame by 2" a side for wider tires and have it set up to have a drop in 6 speed.

I dropped the original idea in order to have a more modern frame, loose quite a few pounds and less welding (I have no idea how to do such things).

Now I'm kinda having second thoughts as of which one would be right for me. I feel Option B would be superior to Option A, but it is considerably more expensive and I'm not confident I would see its benefits other than weight reduction (this is a '75 vette weighing in at ~3550lbs). My budget is tight, and I'm young. That means I will have (hopefully) an engagement ring, wedding, house and kids I have to consider in my budget when looking towards the future. Furthermore, the frame is pretty good shape (from what I can see). Even the surface rust is minimal.

This is where you, my fellow vette enthusiasts, can suggest what you think I should do. Any thoughts are welcome based on hunches and experience. If you see any flaws in either plan let me know. ANYTHING will help.

 

The tube frame would be a great way to get a solid starting point and superior suspension but the cost I think is a big deterrent. I voted for 'A' because I think the money you save from the frame can go towards the suspension on the stock frame and towards the drive train. A 500 HP LS drive rain will cost you plenty as is, and if you can afford it go with the tube frame but if not, stick with stock.

 

i think that if cost is beginning to come in to play at all, option A is best. the frame is already ready. there have been a couple people on here that have fit wider tires in the back, and plenty of threads on getting what you need under there.
as far as benefits for the tube frame, lighter weight "generally" means faster times, and occasionally = better handling. you also dont have to put 650 hp.. you can do 500 and get the same "pants" feeling. depends on how you plan to use the car i guess.. but i would do b, if time and money ever permit

 

I hope your budget is at leat 50K or larger to do it right. If you think for a second that a tube frame with modern running gear and all that goes along with it can be done for 25K or under you are going to be sitting with a pile of unfinished parts.

The tube frame and newer suspension is light years ahead of the old design C3 stuff and will ride and handle much better than anything you can do with the C3 suspension.

The costs on this add up extremly fast and it is not for the faint of heart. Not rying to discourage you at all, it would be a heck of a ride but talking from first hand knowledge on this it will be expensive. I would go for plan B but plan on lots of cash.

 

Tell us how much you think each option will cost and we'll let you know if you're in the ballpark.

 

Well, I don't plan on finishing this project any time soon. If she was done in 25 years, I would be happy. As long as I can enjoy it on the journey. The budget is pretty much unlimited, its just a matter of time accumulating it. I know the tube frame would run about 18K right out of the box, where as the the "equivalent" work to the original frame would run me about 7-8K?

Like I said I would do piece wise, not all at once. I planned on either maintaining the suspension this year (systems worn out) to keep her going or buy the VB&P kit and be done with it this summer. Next year, maybe just save up for the LS# and 6 speed. They seem to go for about 7K on ebay (LS2 with t56 out of a Goat). But I wouldn't be able to save for the engine/tranny until the tube/original frame debate was settled and locked in.

My fear when it comes to this is will I wait so long saving, will I budget myself out of the car and enjoyment? I wanted to put my tax return and '07's bonus towards the frame, but life interfered and severely hampered putting as much as I wanted to put away. At the rate I'm going now, I won't have that 18K for about 6-7 years. Assuming nothing severe falls apart...we all know how that goes. But that doesn't include all of life's detours like a wedding, for example. I feel like I rambled, but hopefully that helps a little.

 

Have you calculated what it's going to cost to do your LS swap? Do you already have everything you need, or are you going to (1) buy a donor car like a Camaro to get everything you need or (2) buy the stuff individually.

Unless you have an unlimited budget for this thing, your answer will determine the route you should go. I saw an LS1 camaro on ebay yesterday in the $5k range with nitrous... if that's an indicator of what they're all going for and you were to buy something like that to give you all of the hardware you need, then you're in at a low price point and can swing for the SR-III frame now if that's what you really want.

Personally I like the muscle car feel better. Last year I bought an 80 to turn into a track car and I just redid the complete suspension on it. I was going to go with steeroids and all of that, but after returning everything to factory specs it felt like a brand new car and that's all I really wanted. And with the 585 HP motor (tuned down to about 540 atm until I get used to the power and handling) it feels like a different car. Now granted it's not going to feel like a C5+ or anything, like it was said, the newer suspensions are naturally years ahead, but the point is that the factory suspension IS up to the task, when it's returned to factory spec (and improved with better shocks and springs).

You don't have to get a $15,000 SR-III setup that performance car feeling & handling.

So my vote is for getting the existing suspension back to factory spec, which isn't really all that expensive, and maybe raise the rear end a little. Don't replace anything until you break it. Focus on your motor & tranny and all of the stuff you need, and if you're not satisfied with it, THEN upgrade it. Don't let the "while I'm at it" kill you here... you're talking about a ton of cash going with that frame when there really isn't anything "wrong" with the one you have. Odds are you'll be happy with the factory suspension, being returned to factory spec, and not have to spend all of that cash.

 

My budget is tight, and I'm young. That means I will have (hopefully) an engagement ring, wedding, house and kids I have to consider in my budget when looking towards the future.

Finish the vehicle no matter what your choice is. Marriage aint what its cracked up to be. Vettes are more fun. I mean I love my wife, but Im a bit older so the situation is quite different. Ive already made several mistakes and spent a lot of money on 2 previous marriages (divorce, support alimoney etc.). Enough to have the 71 I really want, 4 times over. Get your car the way you want it before making those "deep" decisions. Work hard, spend the way you want, and drive it like you stole it.

 

I'm 28, single, no kids, no animals, and love my life. I figure I have my whole life to worry about marriage and kids. If my gf dosen't like my hobbies then I'll find another. Right now I'm focusing on my career and having fun. I'm building my $50,000++ dream Vette. Didn't go with the SRIII chassis, but if I could do it over again I would've!!

I know someone is going to jump in here talking about how great marriage is and to some it has been. I just have heard way too many horror stories from guys that have lost their toys and are drowning in alimony to be sold on the whole idea just yet!

 

What are you actually going to be using the car for? I know everyone wants the vette to be state of the art, but if you are never going to fully use the capabilities that you are putting into it then sometimes you just compromise.

If you think money will be an issue now, then that little voice talking to you should be listened to. It'll cost more than what you initially planned most times. I'd go option A simply because you can start it and stop it at any point you decide or run out of money and still be able to drive the car. Option B could put that car in the garage for years if you have a money problem come along.

My honest opinion is if you want to make the C3 a good car do it. If you want to make it handle and drive like a C5, just go out and get a C5 to park in the garage beside it. Financially, you'd get your money back easier also.

 

Well on the whole marriage debate that spun out, That isn't all that important to me now, but this is clearly going to be a long term project, with or without a wife. My point about the marriage and kids and house, etc was simply to add. I'm already seeing my money **** away and I have none of those. What I was trying to say was, if I'm feeling the money pinch now, what will happen if these life altering things do happen?

The hopes for this project is maybe some autocross, little bit of drag and maybe a trip to The Glenn once in a while, but mostly I want a streetable car that I can throw into some twisties if I want to (bragging rights and the right to say "I built it" as well). I realize my hp numbers might be high for this kind of use, but it's more of a "proof of concept" to me. Back in college, I did all of the theoretical calculations and research for a twin turbo direct injection LS2. I wanted to build something close to that, and I felt the C3 would be an interesting showcase. I design study, if you will.

I like the mix of ideas an opinions that has come out on this thread. Thanks guys, you haven't let me down. Keep it coming !

 

Honestly man, I think you're going to have to get better control of your money if you're going to pull any of this off. I mean, can you afford to buy a $15,000 frame right now? That's what it's going to cost you with the suspension, brakes, coil-over, and delivery. If you don't have the cash sitting in the bank to do it, unless you're making enough where you can save up that much in the next year, personally I wouldn't even consider it. And don't even think about financing it - the last thing you need is to be stuck making payments on something that you may not ever be able to finish.

The first thing to do is forget about the car and look at your money situation. Where is it coming from, and where is it going? How much are you spending a month paying off credit cards, car payments, other debt for crap you don't really need? Get that junk paid off, and resolve yourself not to go into debt anymore, and it will be like getting a big fat raise. Then you'll have the cash to do what you want with the vette.

If you're having money issues now, you don't need a project car. Too many people do that, and that's why we always see projects for sale on ebay for $2,500 where the owner claims they have $15,000 in it. You don't want to be one of those guys, so you gotta get the other stuff worked out first.

 

No, I do not have a money problem. I do not have outstanding credit card debts. All I have is my car loan and school loans (very low). I had no interest in financing this, nor do I have mounting debt. As I stated, This is for down the line. My definition of money issues differ from most. My apologies if I was misleading. When I say I'm tight for cash, that means I'm near balance (balance as in income = spending) with income, bills, retirement, and mandatory savings (I treat my savings accounts like bills and I regularly use CDs. However, I find that CDs aren't that great nowadays and direct savings yield more). I don't feel tight with money when my income exceeds my spending by about 5%. I'm not like the majority (seems like the majority) of youth (the Old get this too) today that rack up huge bills on credit cards and try to pay it off while continuing to spend more. I have credit cards, I use them regularly (I feel its safer than cash and easier to manage) and when the bill comes each month, I pay it off, in full.

No, I do not have 15K to drop (more like 18K for a few extras that i would like) in the bank, but I need to decide now if this is the route to go. I want a project plan before I make decisions on the future of my vette. This is not something I would be doing for a while, and I feel this is ahead of the game, but I have a failing suspension that either needs and upgrade (a waste if I go with option B) or a rebuild (wasted on option A).

I appreciate the concern, but I'm confident I have the money part straight. My only money question is, will the saving for the frame take longer than its worth? Will the added performance be worth the time penalty?

 

You sound a lot like me when I was younger. I never understood why anyone would get themselves in credit card debt up to your ears. It is a losing situation, that is extremly difficult to get out of. Pay yourself first as you are doing and keep at it. I am by no means a financial wizard as a matter of fact I am terrible at investing but I have someone do it for me. I have always had some fun money and never been in debt, other than a mortgage.

That being said I started out modest with my cars. I dreamed of owning a big dollar car but knew with marriage, yes I have a good one of 21 years, kids and housing and other pop up expenses it will add up real fast and the high dollar car would have to wait. Don't get yourself bogged down to much with a huge project. I would try to finish a project in 3 to 5 years max. Anything after that there will be so much new stuff out there you will want to upgrade to it. Heck in 25 years the LS motors will be real old. I have spent way to much on my car and rebuilt it probably 3 or 4 times over but I have also enjoyed driving and building it. I update as new stuff comes out. I'm rambling a little here but I'd hate to se you plunk down 15 to 18K ond then lose interest or get bogged down with marriage and mortgage and kids and have it sit there. Take what you can afford now and update what you have and enjoy it. Keep saving.

 

Thank you, Gordonm. I think you have made the most sense to me (not to say others I haven't agreed with). I understand where you are coming from. You make a lot of sense. I am also not a financial wizard and have employed just an expert for me, haha.

To Ron, sorry. You kinda struck a nerve and I was a bit of an azz hat replying to your post. I get a lot of people in my life (those that know me, those that don't) that see my age and automatically assume I don't have a clue what I'm doing with money. I don't think you were doing this. I mean no disrespect, and you had valid points, I wasn't clear enough and used terms loosely; a bad habit of mine. But if I were in the situation you might have thought, I would agree 100%. If I had little to no money to throw around, I have no business screwing around with a project car.

With that all said, Keep the opinions coming guys!

 

your going to need a second vett you will not be able to drive the first once you take it apart

Hammadown

 

No need to apologize, like I said we just see a lot of projects for sale really cheap that people claim to have a lot more invested in and it's always for the same reason - they get pumped about what they want to do and then can't afford to continue it.

The only thing I would suggest is that you might want to consider paying off your car loan and student loans first. Then you won't feel broke while you're doing this, and won't have to put something off because you have bills to pay. I mean, think about what you're spending on those payments right now and imagine how much faster this project would go if you didn't have to make those. The truth is you don't really need to be saving right now because you're not actually earning any interest with it - you're paying more interest on the loans you do have than you're earning by saving the money you make, so it cancels out. That money you're throwing into savings right now, while good in practice, would be better spent at getting rid of the car payment & student loans. THEN start saving and investing and you've got yourself a hell of a financial plan - plus plenty of monthly cash flow to buy whatever you need for the vette. Take it from a guy who did it the wrong way for years, and went from more than $300k in debt to being debt free... I made good money but always felt broke at the end of the month because it all went to payments.

You're in a great position right now if all you have is a car payment, student loans, and you're already used to saving - that puts you ahead of about 70% of Americans, as most people aren't so wise with their dollars. Your greatest tool for building wealth and working on little projects like this is your income, not investments, so the best way to have extra cash is to not be spending what you earn on payments. The project you want to take on is going to be a long one, yes, but think about how fast it would go if you were keeping 100% of the money you spend on monthly payments in your pocket instead. You'll be spinning your wheels and leaving the Mustang guys in the dust much sooner! Best of luck man!

And as for the advice, don't be in a rush to do a frame swap early on - it's a lot cheaper to get the original suspension back to factory spec (probably less than $1,000 if it's already in good shape). That frees up your cash to focus on the rest of your build and making it the best it can be on the factory suspension & frame. This way you can be enjoying your vette a lot faster ... later on if you still feel like dropping $18k on the SR-III frame you can do it without any regrets, and your nice & fairly new suspension components can probably be resold here in the parts forum, recovering some of the $1,000 you spent on them. Honestly, I think if you do it this way I don't see any reason why you can't be driving it within a year ... doesn't have to be a 20 year project if you don't have to come up with $18k for it. You can do the LS swap for $5k if you find the right donor car, and I bet you could get there within a year if you don't have it already.

 

Or a third if you want to play with the first two.

 

I seriously contemplated getting another vette, but I don't have garage space as it is (the current one gets a car cover under a house extention)!

Ron,
Thanks for the advice. You certainly sound like you know what you're talking about. However, my one car loan is a 0% loan over 6 years (just got the loan in Nov.) so there really isn't a need to pay that one off. If anything, over time with inflation included I'll somewhat make money, since the payments are fixed in 2007 dollars. As for student loans, They really don't come into play much and the interest is around 5%. I don't remember what is is exactly because I pay online so I saved some amount of interest that way. But I probably should throw some more money at them so at least I save some interest, but I couldn't pay them off in full.
As far as the vette is concerned, she is driveable now (well, if the rear suspension was in). If I decide to go with the tube frame, I'll return the suspension to stock, just rebuilt, and save up for the frame. If I decide to keep the original frame, I'll replace the stock suspension with the VB&P system, mostly in prep for the engine swap. I don't want to blow the suspension apart because it's worn and used to a whopping 165hp (if the 350 even makes that power anymore).

Either way, I will have a running/functioning vette by the end of July. I hate the fact I'm losing so much of the summer, but winter projects aren't really an option without a garage.

As an update, I think I'm leaning towards keeping this frame and building what I have. It fits my lifestyle a little better and I will be making progress towards my goal. If in 20 years, I find I still want the frame, then I'll think about it then. Who knows what will even be around then. There could be something totally better, or the IC engine could be pretty much a relic. I just know, if I plan too far ahead, I won't have the vette I want. I will have a running one, but currently my Saturn Ion Redline can whoop my vette's azz, anyday, time or place. It can even keep up in the corners (the IRL was tuned at the 'Ring in germany) and blows it away in a straight.
I can't let that happen, can I?

So keep the views and discussions comming. I've learned a lot so far, like pay off my loans so I can buy a second and third vette, haha!

 

Option B is way more expensive than A. Unless you have unlimited funds, I suggest option A; first blueprint/rebuild the rear, then put in the LS and 6-speed, then sometime later you can upgrade to steeroids (I suggest the Corvette Steering box instead) and do the front end mods.