Alright guys. Define the true meaning of a "survivor".

I always thought this was an untouched (virgin) original vehicle with all of the original parts, both inside and out.

What I'm seeing a lot of are cars being advertised with the "survivor" description and yet they've put in a new exhaust and mufflers, new master cylinder, calipers, or some other replacement parts. These, to me, technically aren't survivors. They're older cars with some newer replacement parts.

 

Define it according to who?
The NCRS does not have a definition, you have a definition, and bubba selling his car has a definition.

 

From Sports Car Market:
"To win a Bloomington Gold Survivor certificate, a car is judged in four categories—exterior, interior, engine compartment, and chassis. It must be more than 50% original or unmodified in three of the four categories, and in good enough condition to use as a model for the restoration of a similar car. If it passes in all four categories, it’s deemed a Benchmark car."

If you want a "technical" answer to what a Survivor is (capital S, Trademarked), see the above.

The "spirit" of a "survivor" is simply, a level of unrestored.

However, in the vintage car hobby, both with owners and sellers, many people use terms completely incorrectly, such as numbers-matching, etc. Survivor is overused and incorrectly used all the time, for convenience and overselling.

To be fair, someone advertising their very original car with many unrestored parts, its fair to loosely call it a "survivor"-type car (slang term- NOT a Blooomington Gold Survivor) without it having "all the original parts, inside and out."

 

When did NCRS start having a definition for Survivor?

 

I remembered one of your earlier posts, with this same definition of survivor, and incorrectly associated NCRS with it.

 

1st let me say I'm not an NCRS guy (and will never be for that matter ) so I can't comment on the "correctness" of Steve's explanation but as far as a PRACTICAL explanation I think he is dead on.

 

The term "Survivor" was coined by Bloomington Gold years ago. As explained in the post above, they have a criteria that has to be met to achieve the award. The term has been used and mis used ever since.

NCRS does not use the term.

 

And Bloomington Gold's definition of Survivor is laughable at best! The criteria is way to lienient to have any real value behind it.

 

Agree the term is overused. Generally I think it should apply to original paint, original interior, original drivetrain. Parts wear out and need replacement, so I think you're still in the spirit of a survivor with things like new tires, exhaust, master cylinder, etc.

 

Well you've really spun things up now.

As TH, points out the term "survivor" is used by Bloomington Gold to award Corvettes with mostly original interior, exterior, chassis and mechanical sections. It's understood that perishable items (fan belts, oil filters, etc) are replaced but than "the Judge" determines the extent of perishability done to the Corvette. Exhaust systems are a stretch. The Bubba's ignorant of the judgin process, adopt the term to describe their concept of an original Corvette in hopes those that know even less, will buy it.

NCRS calls it original Corvette award program "Bowtie" and an original Corvette, judged as such, earns a star per section for a "Five-star Bowtie Award" A section must earn 85 percent of the judged items as original to the car, not NOS, not repo to score that section's star. It includes items such as the broadcast code tag on a front coil spring, date coded carbs, sufficient to the satisfaction of a judge that he/she determines its originality.

Most bloomington gold "Survivor" judges are NCRS "Bowtie" judges. And we are creatures of using the least number of sylables to describe complex, complicated systems such as judging a Corvette's originality. So "survivor" is easier to use and remember than "Five-star Bowtie Award" which makes "BGs" Survivor program a great marketing ploy. And your query shows it works.

I might add BG is a for-profit enterprise...NCRS a not-for-profit organization. BG makes $ off its judging program...NCRS mission is one of preservation and enjoyment. Now you be the judge!

 

I beg to differ. I have a Bloomington Gold Survivor, and I think they do a pretty good job. What is laughable about it? Whats lienient about it?. Your are judged actualy in 5 catagories as you also have to complete a 35 mile road trip. Even though it says at least 50% it usually does not apply such as if different exhaust or painted valve covers etc can throw you out of that catagory..................LT ...LT

 

I see nothing wrong with the way Bloomington does it either. Bottom line, weather you are at Bloomington or not, the real idea behind survivor was like this.........

Is the car original enough to preserve and not restore? Does it have significant research value to those restoring a similar car to use it as a guide for correctness. Original, but not deteriorated beyond use.

To me, a Survivor is a car that tells us how it was done by the factory. Finishes, fastners, tags, and details.

 

I'd like to know if the judging process includes an interview of the owner by the judges to determine if the owner has replaced any parts (or has knowledge of changes) with 'original replacements' from another car ... or perhaps the owner fills out a form.

Obviously, honesty and knowledge of the car history enter the picture here ... so if you don't know if a PO replaced anything, you may not be able to answer the questions appropriately.

I've seen plenty of threads offering to sell dated tires, carbs, etc. As I see it, a 'correct' carb or tires are not necessarily the 'originals'. Is this accounted for in the judging?

An interview many not be the appropriate way of resolving this issue. I'm not particularly knowledgeable of the process either ... but I'd like to learn more.

 

What's lienient about it? How about allowing 50% of the categories to be un-original!

 

Your last sentence says it all! Not possible with criteria that allows up to 50% non-original!

 

What if the Bloomington Survivor certification contained the "real" percentage (ranging between 50% to 100%) awarded to the car owner where that info was written on the certification? I think that might give this certification more validity in terms of originality and historic value.

 

Personally, I like your suggestion.

Does anyone know how or to whom you could offer this suggestion?

 

Go on the Bloomington Gold website and email or call or write to David Burroughs.