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Frustrated!! Another brake thread.

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Old Apr 10, 2011 | 04:25 PM
  #21  
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The booster is a chore to replace... has to be undone from the interior side of the firewall.
Since you indicate that there is fluid movement in the master when you pump the break, you are confirming you have actuation on the master by the pedal rod.
Before you change the booster, I HIGHLY recommend replacing the caliper on the wheel that was originally giving you problems, if not replacing ALL the calipers.
You may have rebuilt a caliper with a cracked body. You indicate that the pads were soaked in fluid... that's a pretty massive failure.
It will be so much easier to replace the caliper and re bleed than it will be to do the booster. I *really* don't think changing the booster is going to fix your problem.
Good luck, man. Keep us posted.
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Old Apr 10, 2011 | 10:00 PM
  #22  
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Brass washers get installed on rear calipers
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Old Apr 10, 2011 | 10:41 PM
  #23  
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I read your post in the tech section and then this one. If you are getting only fluid and no bubbles at each caliper, then the calipers are free of air. And I repeat, the calipers are free of air! That means you have air trapped in your master cylinder. I know you bench bled, but you must have some air trapped in the MC. My original MC has 2 bleeders on it. They are for bench bleeding. If your MC doesn't have the bleeders, then you need to get a kit at your parts store that attaches to the MC for bench bleeding. It contains 2 fittings and some plastic tubing. Do not try to bench bleed your master with it installed in the car. The MC has to be installed in a vise and "perfectly level". If you try to bleed on the car, the MC will be in a slanted position that allows a pocket for air to get trapped that can't be bled out. Also, when you bench bleed the master, make sure you are pushing the piston all the way in and not just half way. Some make this mistake and don't have the master completely bled.
Also, re the subject of gravity bleeding, that's the only way I've ever done my '72. Many years ago I purchased calipers from Stainless Steel Brakes Corporation (SSBC) and with the package they included very specific directions for gravity bleeding. I don't remember exactly, but I do remember having to jack the car up off the ground and the back end had to be an exact distance off the ground. The front was also off the ground but was lower than the back. I followed their directions and the brakes worked just fine and have ever since. Maybe find them online and see if you can get those instructions. Good luck! And I agree with others that I don't think your problem is with your booster.
Duane

Last edited by Duane4238; Apr 10, 2011 at 10:42 PM. Reason: mistake
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 11:45 AM
  #24  
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Update: 4/11/11 Monday.

I will be pulling the M/C off again to bench bleed it. During the day I had a bleeder open on the front right wheel, a friend came over to talk, I got distracted and forgot about it. When I went to get the car the front reservoir was empty. But at least all the fluid was in the bottle that I had connected to it.

So I will be pulling this off again to bench bleed it. I do have the kit that came with the new M/C that I used. The M/C is in a vise, and is level. I use a large Phillips screwdriver to gently push the plunger in all the way until I dont see any more bubbles in the tubes. The tubes that came with the kit are clear so its easy to see if there are any bubbles remaining. I can check their flow in the pressure stroke, and the suckback to make sure there arent any left.

I then put the plastic caps into the holes until I can get this bolted into the car.

I might have time to do this one night this week. If not, it will have to sit until the weekend again.

kdf
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 12:55 PM
  #25  
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Go to the parts store and get some brass plugs that fit in the brake line ports of the master cylinder. Install them and then bench bleed the master cylinder again. It should pump up to where you can barely move the piston in the MC, at that point you need to keep pumping it and you will see a few tiny little bubbles coming up inside the reservoir with each stroke. Keep pumping it until you no longer see any these tiny little bubbles. It takes a while, but it will eventually get all the air out of the bore.
Leave the plugs in place while bolting the MC onto the booster and only take them out when you are ready to attach each brake line.
Once the lines are tight gravity bleed each caliper in the correct order (RR outer, RR inner, LR outer, LR inner, RF, LF). I have never had to gravity bleed for more than about 10-15 minutes on each bleeder but I do tap on the calipers with a hammer periodically during the process. Once you are done gravity bleeding get a helper and bleed them again in the correct order using the pump the pedal method (bleeder closed, helper pumps pedal up three times and holds pressure, open bleeder until flow of fluid slows, close bleeder, repeat as necessary until no bubbles are seen). It shouldn't take you more than an hour and a half to bleed the brakes using this process.

This is the way I have done it on both my 73 (several times) and Liz's 68 (several more times due to dealing with other brake issues) and it has worked perfectly every time.


(Note, I have even successfully used the plastic shipping plugs that come in the master cylinder to bench bleed them, but I wouldn't recommend this since they tend to blow out very easily and it makes huge mess when they do )
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 08:40 PM
  #26  
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I tried the plug method to bleed the master several times hopeful it would work because it is less messy,I was not impressed.
Went back to the tried and true 2 tube method.
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 08:52 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ...Roger...
I tried the plug method to bleed the master several times hopeful it would work because it is less messy,I was not impressed.
Went back to the tried and true 2 tube method.
And I had no problems with the plugs, so I think the main point, (proper bench bleeding) is the thing to focus on.
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Old Apr 18, 2011 | 04:00 PM
  #28  
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Update: 4/18/11 SUCCESS

The problem was with my power brake booster. After taking off the master cylinder and bench bleeding again to insure there was no air in the system, I put it back on, and still could not get any resistance to the brake pedal. It would go straight to the floor. Knowing that I did not have air in the master cylinder, no air bubbles coming from the calipers, new brake hoses all around, and no leaks anywhere...there was only one part left. The power brake booster. I disconnected the M/C from the booster but did not break the seal/lines because I had already bled the brakes. I commented earlier that I thought something did not feel right with the booster rod. I can pull the rod out, and move it up/down/left/right.




I decided that I would replace the booster as my last hope. After I replaced it, I reconnected the master cylinder, pressed the brake pedal...and it was firm. Could it be that it was fixed? I started the car and pumped the brakes a couple of times....still firm. Shut off the car, pumped three times, and the pedal was stiff, not moving.

Cleaned everything up....and went for a shake down cruise. GREAT. Good brakes, stops good, no squeals or squeeks. And no leaks.

I got back to the garage, checked the fluid level...still full. I went back for a 5 mile drive, and it was nice.

I will check this weekend for any leaks now that it has been pressured and driven.

But for now...this has been fixed. There were many problems that seemed to accumulate. But the primary reason was a bad brake booster.

Here is the updated photo. New brake booster, master cylinder, and fresh brake fluid.


kdf
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Old Apr 18, 2011 | 05:06 PM
  #29  
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I am glad to hear it all worked out! I ruled out the booster based on the fact that you reported that after you replaced the MC you could see fluid movement in the MC when you pumped the pedal even though there was no resistance. Oh well, guess I was wrong. Happy cruising!
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