OK... Well it's my first post and I am going to start with an opinion from the minds here. I have some freinds that have helped me so far, but I figure a few more eyes can't hurt. Since it seems like there are hundreds here... I should be good. If this question is in the wrong area... my apologies...

We (wife and I) are about to pull the trigger on a 1977 T-Top Vette. The frame is in very good shape with mostly just surface rust. The birdcage seems good everywhere I could easily see. I was even able to pull off a few panel pieces to get to the cage. For example at the top corners of the windshield. I was also able to see the floor and back panel of the cage. Everywhere I could see, the car had, essentially, surface rust. The only thing I see, that concerns me, is what I show you below:



Just above this the cage just has surface rust. I could not get so far as to pull off the lower footwell/kickpanel to see inside and to the bolts to the frame.

The question is the same as many.... Should I run away or not worry?

As background.... We do plan on doing a body off restoration. We are aware of the costs and time. We also plan on powder coating the cage and chassis. We have a connection that will blast and powdercoat everything. We are in no hurry and the car is not needed for transport.

Here are some shots of the chassis to give you an idea. The whole thing is like this... except for the shot above.



and

 

Looks good underneath but I'm not so sure about the door jamb.
Is it missing a trim tag?

 

Yes... The trim tag is gone. It is Classic White with the red interior. It seems to be original paint as there is no overspray anywhere. The only thing is that door jamb. The passenger side is fine.

My guess is that there was some corrosion there and it was somehow filled in and painted over in just that section. Hence the missing tag.

On that note... Does anyone make replacement tags with the embossed codes? It would just be nice to have it in there...

 

i would be suspect of the 2 door hinges on that door as well. you have to ask urself- why/how did that rust get there? only one side?

 

That's why I am a little concerned, but not too much. Hence my question....

The hinges are original and match the passenger side. Paint looks original and the door is original and matches the passenger. What I mean is it does not seem to be painted, it matches the body color spot on (I should say it's just as faded...lol). I was able to pull the door trim back a tad and saw it was the same inside... ie. not a red door painted over in white. The gaps around the door are nice and even. I went at the rusty area with a large screwdriver and a mallet a bit and it did not go through... ie. Whatever is back there, it's solid. (BTW...I was banging all over the place wherever I saw rust with a heavy chisel or the screwdriver to make sure everything was solid). In the end... as far as I can see without taking the car apart..... it's not been hit on the side.

I figure the birdcage is rusted in the lower windsheild corner of the driver's side. I know it's repairable should it be rusted through. It just seems odd to me that it's just the one side.

We are getting the car for cheap so a repair/replacement of the section is not going to kill me or the project. Ultimately, I asked because I don't know if there is something under there that would do that, other than the cage. For example, some drainage channel, windshield support, etc. that would rust easier.

 

If you've got access to the car check the #2.3 and 4 body mounts. #1 you cant see.
#2 is behind the panels beside where your feet would be on the floor. #3 is behind the small metal door in the front of the rear wheelwell. #4 is visible by looking at it from the outside.

#4, look for the mount where it attaches the body to the frame, by the "rubber mount" that may or may not still be there.
#2 and #3 will have surface rust, but thats no big deal. As long as its not rotten or full of water/rust scaling.

Check the VIN plate. If its rusty, then water is getting in somewhere.
Rad support rusty?
Much gunk in the coil spring mounts in the lower control arms?
If you can pull the door sill plates and roll the carpet back a bit.....look dry n dusty?....or moist n black (mold)?

Another thing to check, if you can, is the amount of grunge on top of the spare tire carrier......

Pics look decent. Your #1 pic looks like the rust on the sealer. Whats the door look like where the pieces touch? How do the bottom of the doors look?

dodosmike

 

I figure you are right. I believe I would pass on this one and keep looking.

 

I am heading out there today again to make the deal or walk away....

I will check the #2 mount. Like I said, the interior is all there and he was not too happy about me taking it apart. However, I will try my best to get in there considering I will have the dead presidents there....

#3 I removed the covers and they have rust but not complete corrosion. In other words, the surface rust I'd expect on a 30+ year old bolt. There was no accumalated garbage in there. No "sludge" to mention. Getting the damn cover off was more of a mission... lol.... another story...

#4 The mount is fine. The body is fine there. The rubber is completely shot and the shims are done, but, again, no corrosion that fused the bolt in place. No cracks in the fiberglass which I've been told occurs coming off the mounting points.

VIN plate is fine. Just some very very small specs. Frankly, that'll come from the humidity in Florida. This is why I was curious as to why the windsheild frame was fine at the top and down the pillar but then so bad at the joint to the firewall.

Radiator support.... fine. As is the radiator. I was surprised as I figured that would be in trouble.

The front suspension looks fine. Nothing built up in the lower are. Springs are good. Shocks have, obviously, been replaced but not rusted. Also good as I know they've been on there for at least 10 years. (Cars been parked).

At the door sill the carpet was already out. The sill plates are all scratched up from years of use and it seems they pulled one to try and find a replacement. It was lynig in the floor of the car. Basically all dry and dusty. Sames as behind the seats and into the rear corners where the back wall comes up. I have zero concerns there.

Doors are fine all the way around. Nothing to wirte home about there. As I mentioned, the gaps are fine.

Overall.... nothing I can see shows something aweful beyond the driver side door jamb in the photo.

Things that definately are gone....

Exhaust. This is fine, as we were planning sidepipes for the C3 anyway.

Rear Leaf Spring. Plan was to update/replace the suspension anyway. I am a firm beleiver in ground up work. Suspension is a non-negotiable change.

Brakes. Plan to go with a modern swap to a bolt-on upgrade. For example, a Wildwood. Again.... non-negotiable. Lines and system will get done, needless to say.

Headlights. Well they are not there. Already have a lined up option on a set in working condition that will need minimal work.

Interior. Here it is complete... all trim and parts are there... they are just 30 years old. We are planning that right now. However, 75% chance we will reuse most of the parts, just recondition them.

A/C. Well again... it's in there, but I have to imagine it needs to be done. Again... it's stock and got nothing more than recharges over the years.

Engine and Tranny. Both will be redone.

Fuel system. Replaced. Again, for safety.

Time frame..... as long as it takes.... I am in no hurry and we are working with many freinds/local club members that will definately be helping.

 

OK... but if the price is low enough... why not simply repair the part? Assuming it's just there....the complete rust through I mean...

I am asking in all earnest... why walk if the repair is not going to break the bank?

 

What was put in this area from the factory? In most of the Vettes I've seen this area never is smooth.

 

The lower windshield frame corners can be difficult to fix, tough to get at. Some people remove the front clip, others cut a section out of the hood surround and fender to get access to this area. If the lower corner is rusted through there's a good chance the upper corners will have rust issues as well. No way to tell for sure without removing the trim. Even with the trim off it may look OK. This area often rusts from the inside out, the metal may appear to be OK but actually be paper thin or have pin holes.

I'm not saying the car isn't worth fixing, up to you. Just agreeing with a previous poster, a rotted windshield frame can grow into a very expensive repair. No way to really know how extensive the damage is without taking the glass out. If you're already seeing some, it's a red flag.

 

All the work and money you're planning on doing will be a waste on a car with a missing trim tag.

There's enough 77's out there, I would keep looking

 

Cause a repair in that area will probably break the bank. The rust you can't see is usually 10x the rust that you can see.

 

Yes, you can buy a replacement trim tag.
Couple hundred bucks.

 

you say your doing a body off restoration. it will cost you as much to do this on a 77 as a chrome bumper vette and just as much work for a car that is not nearly worth as much as a chrome bumper one. i personaly would find a BUMPER CAR but thats just my opinion. NUTSY.,

 

Unless the 77 is DIRT cheap, I'd walk just on this basis alone.

As my dear old unlce John always said "Buy sheet, fix sheet, its still sheet".

If your putting alot of money into it, (frame off) look for a chrome bumper car.

dodosmike

 

How cheap is dirt cheap for a 77, numbers matching, t-top, automatic, base 350 engine, factory A/C, aluminum rims, etc.

 

Cost. Purchase the 77 assembly instruction manual and take a look at what you're getting into.

Making that assumption could prove to be extremely costly.

Ask yourself why the price of this car is so attractively low.

 

CHEAP is a relative term. Its only worth what your willing to pay.

If you want a driver or a show car or all original? Its only money after all.

dodosmike

 

The issue is, you would spend the same amount of money doing a body-off of a chrome bumper car as you would a '77.

When you are done with the chrome bumper, it could be worth in the $30k range, depending on numbers and body style.

On a comparable '77, you could have a car worth half that when you are done. Side pipes wont help it at all.

I can't imagine the resulting red ink that would make a '77 worth a body-off budget.