cheap C3 5-speed?
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 65
Likes: 5
From: Austin Texas
cheap C3 5-speed?
I'm about to address the worn out muncie 4-speed in my 69 small block coupe. Is there a transmission I could pull out of a junkyard as an alternative to a tremec or T-45? If I can't save a few bucks that way ill have to either use the muncie or save for a keisler trans. What do you guys think?
Racer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 369
Likes: 1
From: Rockford TN
We have the Keisler RS400 kit priced at a very affordable $2499 and you may also need the replica shifter handle for an additional $100. You get:
RS400 5 speed overdrive trans (3.37 1.99 1.33 1.00 .67 ratios)
Complete driveshaft
Crossmember adapter bracket
New isolator mount
New speedo cable
5 speed shift plate for your console
Reverse light pigtail
New pilot bushing
Clutch disc with alignment tool
Hardware
*Optional shifter handle as described above
12 month warranty
RS400 5 speed overdrive trans (3.37 1.99 1.33 1.00 .67 ratios)
Complete driveshaft
Crossmember adapter bracket
New isolator mount
New speedo cable
5 speed shift plate for your console
Reverse light pigtail
New pilot bushing
Clutch disc with alignment tool
Hardware
*Optional shifter handle as described above
12 month warranty
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,030
Likes: 17
From: White Pine / Dandridge TN
I was able to score a 93 T5 aftermarket unit made for the Ford Mustang Cobra for $450.00 bucks. Only has about 3,000 miles on it. I've started to accumulate parts for the install and figure I'll be in for about $1,000 when all is said and done. Can't get much "cheaper" than that. Use search function to find old postings. There are lots of them on this subject.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 4
From: Springfield VA
Yea there are 5speeds you can get to work but its cheaper to just do a good rebuilt of your trans unless its completly bad.
Also many 5speeds from the factory are not very strong. GM did testing with 5speeds in the 3rd gen F-body and a 350 tune port and they could not handle the torque. So if you try to get a pulled 5speed you will have to beef it up to use in your car.
So if you want a upgrade get a aftermarket 5speed kit and install that.
If trying to get out as cheap as possible then do a good rebuild on your current trans.
Also many 5speeds from the factory are not very strong. GM did testing with 5speeds in the 3rd gen F-body and a 350 tune port and they could not handle the torque. So if you try to get a pulled 5speed you will have to beef it up to use in your car.
So if you want a upgrade get a aftermarket 5speed kit and install that.
If trying to get out as cheap as possible then do a good rebuild on your current trans.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 745
Likes: 66
From: Hutto Texas
I have a T-5 from a '89 IROC in my '81. The previous owner put it in along with a Wilwood hyd. clutch setup. My '81 was a factory 4spd car so my upgrade sounds a lot like what you are doing. My engine is a stock bottom end but had a head and cam package on it bringing it up to approx. 300hp. The 5spd has held up fine and with 3.63 gears in the back I turn 1900rpm at 70mph on the hwy. I think the main take away is if you are using your car for cruising and enthusiastic driving around town you should be fine.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,367
Likes: 59
From: FL
We have the Keisler RS400 kit priced at a very affordable $2499 and you may also need the replica shifter handle for an additional $100. You get:
RS400 5 speed overdrive trans (3.37 1.99 1.33 1.00 .67 ratios)
Complete driveshaft
Crossmember adapter bracket
New isolator mount
New speedo cable
5 speed shift plate for your console
Reverse light pigtail
New pilot bushing
Clutch disc with alignment tool
Hardware
*Optional shifter handle as described above
12 month warranty
RS400 5 speed overdrive trans (3.37 1.99 1.33 1.00 .67 ratios)
Complete driveshaft
Crossmember adapter bracket
New isolator mount
New speedo cable
5 speed shift plate for your console
Reverse light pigtail
New pilot bushing
Clutch disc with alignment tool
Hardware
*Optional shifter handle as described above
12 month warranty
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 61
From: Southern NH
No offense, because I know you have done a lot of work on these and they are a quality product, but the cost is hard for many to justify.
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,030
Likes: 17
From: White Pine / Dandridge TN
People spend $4000+ on crate motors to get more performance and sometimes worst fuel millage and no ones argues about it. But spending $2600 for a transmission that is stronger then stock, shifts smoother, has better gear ratios AND improves your fuel millage, and people think they cost too much.
I'm getting ready to install a T5 because it will give me what I want to achieve at a price I'm willing to pay with full knowledge that the T5 has limitations. I can't afford to buy the "best" of everything for my vette, so I have to make choices even if they are not always the most logical or understood decision. 2 kids getting close to college age really limits what I want to spend on the vette.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 369
Likes: 1
From: Rockford TN
No offense, because I know you have done a lot of work on these and they are a quality product, but the cost is hard for many to justify.
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,367
Likes: 59
From: FL
People spend $4000+ on crate motors to get more performance and sometimes worst fuel millage and no ones argues about it. But spending $2600 for a transmission that is stronger then stock, shifts smoother, has better gear ratios AND improves your fuel millage, and people think they cost too much.
You modify an engine or go to a crate engine, you do it for power and excitement, which costs money.
Or you do the crate to protect the original and save your investment, which is going to have a cost.
I don't remember anyone in the last 20 or 30 years changing engines for economy.
Most going to the overdrive transmissions are doing it for economic cruising and reducing wear and tear on the car. If for economy, it is hard to justify $2500 to save a few bucks.
But if going for reduced wear and tear, it falls into the "crate to protect my original" category and protection costs money, unfortunately.
I was always amazed with the gas mileage issues and the environmental issues that the overdrive transmission didn't get put in place earlier than 1982.
The 5 speed made it into the Cosworth Vega and the Monza but the other dozen GM models needed one just as badly.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
People spend $4000+ on crate motors to get more performance and sometimes worst fuel millage and no ones argues about it. But spending $2600 for a transmission that is stronger then stock, shifts smoother, has better gear ratios AND improves your fuel millage, and people think they cost too much.
If you gotta worry about the cost of gas for christ sakes just sell the car you cant afford it anyway. Toys cost money, plain and simple.
Get the good stuff the first time. It costs more but what doesnt these days?
If youre stuck on a used T5 long as you arent launching it hard or killing it in between gears ought to last for awhile.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,381
Likes: 416
From: N J
I went the WC T5 route also and couldnt be happier. For the $$$ you cant go wrong. It was a fun conversion. That said.... as others have said, its not as heavy duty a trans as compared to todays kits, but for my fun driver, cruise night car, its just fine. Really depends on whats in front of it and how you plan on treating it. I love mine. Good luck, if you go with the T5, I would be happy to help with any conversion questions.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 61
From: Southern NH
I'm mostly going to change mine out for the lower first gear and a manual will make the car much more fun to drive over the 3 speed auto. I had the way those old TH350s act. The fuel millage to me is a bonus.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 4
From: Arlington texas
No offense, because I know you have done a lot of work on these and they are a quality product, but the cost is hard for many to justify.
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
If he is getting 15 mpg now and puts this in to get 19 mpg, it will be 40,000 miles roughly to break even.
If he is getting really terrible mileage, like many late C3s got of around 10 mpg, then at 19 mpg he will break even around 13,000 miles.
For many, that 40,000 may never be reached and the 13,000 may be 4 or 5 years. Basically, you can buy a lot of gas for the difference.
I know you have already done all you can to deliver both quality and economy, but if you could get the cost lower, so the difference wasn't so much, there might me a lot more buying.
I don't believe in the philosophy of if you can't afford the gas you can't afford the car either. No more than if you can't afford to restore one you can't afford to own one. There are compromises that everyone has to make in their hobbies and there isn't anything wrong with it.
Nothing wrong with a T5 salvage transmission if it meets your needs. Not everyone is going to thrash their cars.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 61
From: Southern NH
I wish some one would make and sell a T5 mount, this seems like the biggest issue with using that transmission. I would use one behind my stock '81 if I could find all bolt on pieces to make it work.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 673
Likes: 2
From: Melbourne Victoria
Hey Guys,
DUMB questions ahead.
1/ Does the steering lock (when put in reverse) still work with these
RS 400 or T56 conversions ?????
2/
Anyone thought of using a Japanese gearbox (like
a Toyota Supra/Celica box) ?????
OK....Flame away.
Cheers,
Gav
DUMB questions ahead.
1/ Does the steering lock (when put in reverse) still work with these
RS 400 or T56 conversions ?????
2/
Anyone thought of using a Japanese gearbox (likea Toyota Supra/Celica box) ?????
OK....Flame away.
Cheers,
Gav
Racer
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 296
Likes: 4
From: London Ontario
I did the T56 swap. It wasn't too expensive for me. I bought a wrecked camaro and parted it out and esentially got the transmission for free. I also took some other items like the electric fans. If you go this route try to find a 94-97 F-body. I did have to cut and weld the crossmember to make it fit but yours is an auto so it might already be removeable making it a little easier. Its very tight in the tunnel around the tailhousing. I cut and glassed mine in to have a little extra space. The shifter can be cut and welded or you can buy an aftermarket shifter to put it in the right place, or just make a new console. The other thing is that the overdrive is 0.5 so if you have 3.23 gears or something 6th will be useless (I swapped to 4.10s)
~250 Flywheel
~200 Shortened Driveshaft
~100 yoke (TH350 yoke will work)
If you're planning on doing any swap add a little extra too your budget because there will always be little things that you don't account for or things you want to do while you're in there
~250 Flywheel
~200 Shortened Driveshaft
~100 yoke (TH350 yoke will work)
If you're planning on doing any swap add a little extra too your budget because there will always be little things that you don't account for or things you want to do while you're in there
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,381
Likes: 416
From: N J
1) Unbolt stock rear mount.
2) Cut the nose off of it.
3) Have a peice of 1/8 steel welded across the front cut section and rebolt it to the car.
4)With the trans in the car, bolt the cut peice to the rubber mount, put the trans at the height where you want it, outline it with a marker on that front plate and have it welded.
