Originally posted this at Team Chevelle - thought might get some additional feedback from Corvette Forum.....


I have a 30 over 427 in my 69 Camaro - considering selling it to start funding a new 540 or 582. Looking for an idea what it is worth - just does not seem right to reuse as a core for a 496.

Engine was from 68 Corvette, 3x2 435 HP. Short block was factory replaced, casting 3963512, CE0xxxx, indicating to me a 1970 block. 4 bolt mains, forged crank, TRW pistons, 3/8 dimple rods. Heads are 3919840 and late 67 castings - right for early 68 production run on car. Ultradyne hydraulic cam now, old solid is long gone. Stock rockers, pushrods etc. Intake, carb and distributer not stock and I plan to reuse.

Engine has been sitting in car for years and not started. Ran fine when layed up, oil in cylinders. Probably will change oil, prime it and get it running again this summer. Mated to Muncie 2.2 transmission that will also go.

I have looked at e-bay for block and head casting numbers and see the same stuff for sale - obviously not moving fast at prices being asked.

Any info would be appreciated,

 

Unfortunately not a whole lot, unless someone has that car on a Corvette registry and is looking for the block.

Right now in Maine there is a complete shortblock 512 block, it was like $1000 - be great for a clone, someone building a nice big block or for someone to restamp, but is that really matching numbers, or correct motor for the car, I know people do it often, but it doesnt make it right. The stuff is probably only good for someone who wants to use factory stuff for a clone or something as new high performance heads are cheap and it is also affordable to score a cheap two bolt and have it set up for splayed mains...for a serious street strip motor.

I am thinking with nice heads, as a long block, you would be happy to get $1000.00 - $1500.00, maybe less. I were buying, I would want to see it with the heads off at the least to be able to inspect block for wear, damage etc...hearing it run may add some to the value, but I would still take apart and rebuild if putting in a car.

Hope this doesnt offend you, just my honest opinion...my dad and I have dealt with a lot of parts over the years and some of the very rare stuff, so this is just my thoughts, especially based on todays economy....67 Camaro street machines that were 15 grand a few years ago are 7-10 grand now...

 

Looks as if it is a CE replacement block. If so then no value to a collector. Maybe to a hot rodder, but.....

 

If it's a '70 CE short block, wouldn't it be a 454?

When I bought my small block '69 it had a '70 CE motor in it that turned out to be an LT-1.

 

The 512 block was used for both 427 and 454 applications and came in 2 and 4 bolt config over the '69-'71 period. Unless there's a string of original paperwork dating back to the dealer, there's nothing that ties this engine to a '68 Corvette or any other particular vehicle. CE engines were put in dump trucks and taxi cabs too, not just Corvettes.

 

Not to completely hijack, but how did you determine your CE motor was an LT-1? My '69 L46 has a CE block from '72, I have been curious if they would've dropped a '72 LT-1 shortblock in its place.

I would be really interested to find out about the CE program and how this warranty work was performed.

 

I took it apart. Steel crank, pink rods, forged domed 11-1 pistons, solid lifter cam, windage tray and 2.02, 1.60 valves. All GM parts.

I actually took it apart to change the pistons. It did nothing but detonate on the crap gas back in the early '80s. Put in flat tops and it ran 100% better.

 

Don't expect too many amazing facts to emerge. Engines with CExxxxxxx on the pad were also sold as over the counter spares for many years and nothing to do with warranty, similar to today's Goodwrench engines. About the only thing known about pad decoding is that the first number after the CE was usually the last number in the year the engine was assembled.

Finding a car with a CE block might mean that it was a bona fide direct warranty replacement , but it might also mean that someone installed a crate engine back then 'cause they felt like it, or it might be a genuine CE warranty engine that spent 30 years in Aunty Matilda's low perf grocery getter till last week and somebody is now trying to pull a fast one.

 

I don't know what a Muncie 2.2 transmission is, but did you mean M22?

I'd actually place more focus on the M22 transmission than the used block...

Not to destroy a nice block or anything, but I would think that once the engine is parted from the car it lived in originally, it is "just another engine" and is worth whatever it is worth. If that block would serve as a suitable basis for your new engine, I'd use it.

 

I'm more curious as to how the warranty program worked. For example, why stamp the block if there was no inventory kept on these motors? And when warranty work did come in, how did the process work? If it was an L46, did it get the flat top pistons of the '72 LT-1, or if the warranty work did not involve replacing pistons, were the domed pistons of the L46 reused? Was the whole rotating assembly replaced regardless, or if it was just a block problem, everything transferred over to the new CE block?

I'm more of a glass-half-full kind of person and believe that this is a bonafide direct warranty block. Original owner says he had a warranty replacement in '72. I buy it. With TI from '69, correctly dated '884 alternator, 187 heads and a 184 manifold, thats alot of work to misrepresent the block. It pulls very strong as well, leaving me to believe groceries were probably scattered by the time Aunty Matilda got home.

 

I believe that CE stamped engines were supplied as either short or long blocks, but not bare. The dealers ordered assemblies by part number which corresponded with the original configuration of the engine aside from part number and date codes.


Where did the OP state this?

 

I love Muncie 2.2 transmissions

 

You my friend are a stonecrusher arent you? hahahaha

 

depends on the scenario of what happened to the original engine and when. some engines never made it out of the casting plant. some never made it out of the assembly line, some never made it to the dealer, some blew up on the 1st test drive. some blew up within 6 months. depending on the scenario, there was different levels of stamping and grinding off and restamping, and retesting etc..

different entities had different procedures on what to rebuild and what to replace and what to stamp on the blocks. I expect that a warranted replacement engine was built to the standard of that day and not to the standard of the car year. which may have been 1 or 2 years or more apart, meaning possible lower HP, lower compression, built as a 454 instead of a 427 etc..

no 1970 512 block had 4 bolt mains except for LS6, and none had 435 HP. the overwhelming number has 2 bolt mains. but is this true of CE blocks? the more info on the engine I see posted, the more challenging questions i have.

you have closed chamber heads on a engine meant for open chamber, so therefor you have newer pistons, so it therefor has been apart before. it is not an 'original engine' by any means.

it is a used generic BB with some HP enhancement that has been sitting for a decade. it would be a hard sell for anything more than a core price, and will cost hundreds to ship..

have you measured the stroke? it might ( should) even be a 454. did they make any CE engines in 1970 as a 427? did they keep old 427 cranks around and when did they quit making them? check the block cast date behind the distributor.

 

Couple of clarifications:

1) I know the owner of the car this was pulled from - he blew up the first 427 in the car when end carbs leaked and filled oil pan with gas. It was a warranty replacement. Guy still owns the car but has no interest in buying the engine back.

2) The short block replacement is a 427 and 4 bolt block. I'm assuming CEOxxxx means 1970 casting - I can't get a clear look at the back of the block in the F body - sits too close to firewall.

3) I rebuilt the CE short block once - all stock except for 30 over TRW pistons. Originals were also TRW sourced, small dome to match closed chamber heads. Open chamber pistons would not fit 840 heads.

The clowns on e-bay are typically asking $2500 for a 4 bolt 512 block and $1000+ for 840 heads. Hard to believe a running engine is worth less than what they are asking for the bare block. Would copies of documentation from the warranty replacement impact value?

 

For this engine to be worth big money it would need to be an original engine for a Corvette which someone is restoring, searching for the original engine. By original I mean the block which was installed by the factory. CE engines, even if they were installed by the dealer under warranty are not regarded as original, not as collectible.

The "clowns" you refer to are probably selling blocks with date codes which would be of interest to someone who is looking to build a 'correct' engine or... gasp.... looking to create a replica of the original and restamp, pass it off as original. Because there's a hefty mark up for 'original' big block Corvettes vs those with replacement blocks, there's a lot of motivation to forge the serial numbers, restamp.

You could try posting the date code found on the block. Someone may be looking for a 512 block with a date code within a certain range for a restoration project, building a 'correct' motor. FYI, both NCRS and now Bloomington accept 'correct' engine blocks for judging without significant loss of points. A car can have a 'correct' block, score Top Flight in judging. Where the 'correct' block doesn't buy as much is when selling to collectors.

Outside of these two scenarios, 'correct' replacement or restamp candidate, it's pretty much just an old engine.. Without a partial VIN indicating it was factory installed, it's not going to bring big $$.