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Last week, I pulled the entire front end off've the engine on a 1987 Chevy Caprice. Along with the A/C compressor, I got the alternator, smog pump and the power steering pump, all the supports, nuts, bolts and torx fasteners. At the shop last night, we were cleaning up the components, mainly the two pulley supports that bolt to the driver's and passenger's side of the block.
The brackets or support are very light and made of aluminum. They will save weight, instead of the multiple thick cast and stamped steel supports and arms, all over the front of the engine. Also, they tie the major rotating accessories, close to the center front of the engine and because there's only a single tensioner, you don't have an alternator, hanging way out there, on a bracket and long arm, reducing leverage. Less slippage, because of the width of the belt and more efficiency, out of the components that you have on there.
As far as fit goes, this is an experiment! The alternator is on the same side, so that's not going to be a worry. Same goes for the Power Steering pump as well, though, from what I understand, there may be a very minor mod to one of the lines, but nothing earth-stopping either. The AC is on the passenger side, just like the C3, and that's good, though, I'm going to run an AC delete pulley for now (Dorman 34222) that's going to run me, all of $40, along with the Smog Pump Delete, from Jegs for about $50. The water pumps are unique and have to be ordered for the '87 Caprice, as they are reverse rotation, because of the belt routing.
My shop partner, was still in the process of cleaning up the dual supports and tonight, I will get some pictures of the two brackets or supports, just so you see what they look like without the grease and gunk all over them. While they are light, they are very stong as well, cast with big criss-cross supports all over them. Going with a new water pump as well, all of $29 and we're going to finish cleaning up today.
The engine should be done today (barring the non-receipt of the air-freighted rocker arms from Comp Cam) and I will document the build up of a modern Serpentine Belt system on a C3, that's not going to run you and arm and a leg.
I did the same conversion this past wither. I bought the GM kit. It ran me $800 but you can pick it up for $625 now. I had no problems other than the idler pulley, but I just left it off. No need for a new belt either. The tension pulley sits a little lower than stock but still puts plenty of tension on the system. Overall, the car has better driveability than the stock set up, IMO.
I did the same conversion this past wither. I bought the GM kit. It ran me $800 but you can pick it up for $625 now. I had no problems other than the idler pulley, but I just left it off. No need for a new belt either. The tension pulley sits a little lower than stock but still puts plenty of tension on the system. Overall, the car has better driveability than the stock set up, IMO.
My old set up, had the alternator belt squalling, no matter what I did! It sucks to be hitting the high RPM's and you hear the little V-belt, squealing like a little girl.
BTW, talked to engine builder today and the engine is done!!!
Yesterday, I had to pay $80 to air freight a set of 8 rocker arms, from Comp Cams, because I only purchased a 'half set' from Summit! Apparently, they sell half sets of eight of the more expensive rocker arms, so you can mix and match ratios, between the exhaust and intake. I thought that all the sets had 16! My bad. Also, the Engine Builder has a really small shop and he wanted my motor out of there, so he could work on the next one.
I thought I was getting a deal for $208 for a set of CNC machined, steel rocker arms, over the $150 aluminum ones! But noooo...! I had to buy another $208 set of the new Comp Cams Ultra Magnum XD's, total $408, add shipping and it's over $500! Gawd, Lord have Mercy on my wallet! But they are bad *** rocker arms!
The GM Performance Parts catalog for a small block serpentine kit is from a 91-92 Camaro/Firebird. It fits perfectly under the hood of a C3. I have one on my ZZ4 68. There are a few minor details to get it installed. If you buy the GM Performance Parts Serpentine kit for your C3, give me a post. It's a great bargain for all new stuff.
About minor details...with the GMPP Serpentine kit, you'll get a reverse rotation water pump. Goodbye to the stock mechanical fan. You need a electrical fan.
"The water pumps are unique and have to be ordered for the '87 Caprice, as they are reverse rotation, because of the belt routing."
Not sure what this part is, but I did the same with an '88 Camaro bracket/pulley system and purchased a reverse flow Edelbrock Aluminum High Flow water pump...it's a nice piece and I doubt its much more $.
Also, for those interested, check e-bay...because of the popularity with this SBC update, lot's of folks pull these, clean them up and offer them there. I think I paid $130 or so and it looked as good as new...cleaned up, new bearings, and painted pulleys. I went with the smog delete pulley ($40) but I've read on here about using a different length belt and a different routing that works well too.
Pass. Side, preliminary fit for AC and Smog Pump Bypass or Delete pulleys
Backside of Pass. Side, showing AC and Smog Pump Bypass Pulleys. Note empty space, where AC used to be!
Pass. Side and Driver Side, painted with Duplicolor Engine Paint. My old Edelbrock Performer, still looks good after two years, with the same treatment. $9-$10 a can and it's not cheap paint.
Close up of Driver's side bracket. Very light, weighing a few pounds at the most! Beautifully designed, very rigid and the alternator and power steering pump, bolt directly to it, versus hanging off've brackets and having tensioner arms with slots, just to load the belts. That's all eliminated here, with only one spring-loaded tensioner for everything! You'll never have to check for belt tension again!
In regards to the question of having to run an electric fan, this may be true for the Camaro, FIrebirds and C4 Corvettes, but the full size cars, were still running fans. This is also a good view of the belt routing and the original configuration on the pass. side, with the smog pump and AC compressor above it.
A couple of notes.
1). Your old alternator won't work, the mounting is totally different on the new ones. Also, you'll have to use the new style pig tail. It's still two wires, but the connector is different.
2). The power steering pumps are identical, but model specific. You'll have to use your old Power Steering pump and transfer the mounting studs to your original pump. The return line on the Caprice is bent totally different, than the C3. It goes up, versus down and back, for the C3.
Just thought of it. Looking at the diagram on the bottom, I realize, that I'll have to get a fan too! I didn't get one, with the Caprice (it was missing), but since the water pump rotates backwards, it makes sense that the fan will be different too. I see that the fan blades are set to rotate clockwise, versus counter clockwise...
Just thought of it. Looking at the diagram on the bottom, I realize, that I'll have to get a fan too! I didn't get one, with the Caprice (it was missing), but since the water pump rotates backwards, it makes sense that the fan will be different too. I see that the fan blades are set to rotate clockwise, versus counter clockwise...
I'm gonna pass. The engine is getting picked up today and I want it in this weekend! The regular fan, along with the aluminum radiator has worked just fine. Also, I don't want to spend any more money this week or having to run a bunch of electrical and relays. Thanks anyhow, for the suggestion. Maybe the next time around, I can plan it, but for now, I'm sticking to the plan!
this is a must. the fan from the Caprice will hit the radiator. This is the reason the Corvette uses the SHORT water pump.
I think you could have saved the $40 on the smog delete pulley and just used a slightly shorter belt. that pulley may also hit your right side upper control arm, so you might not be able to use it anyways.
Also, you'll need to make a new fuel line from the pump to the carb. and don't use a rubber hose for it
this is a must. the fan from the Caprice will hit the radiator. This is the reason the Corvette uses the SHORT water pump.
I think you could have saved the $40 on the smog delete pulley and just used a slightly shorter belt. that pulley may also hit your right side upper control arm, so you might not be able to use it anyways.
Also, you'll need to make a new fuel line from the pump to the carb. and don't use a rubber hose for it
Thanks qwank. I'll take a look at the water pump, that came off the Caprice. If I have to use the short pump, Autozone has a 1987 Corvette water pump in stock, for $39.99 and from working on my ex's 1987, it is a serpentine drive, meaning it's a reverse rotation.
You're right on, about the smog delete pulley and I'm going to remove it. I've got a bud, who's running the AC on a serpentine belt setup on an El Camino and he can use it.
I know for a fact, that my old set up pictured above won't work, but check out what my shop partner, did on a client's '67 RS Camaro, that we had in the shop. He bent all the lines, worked all the fittings and it came out, really, really nice! I've got a new phone now, so please forgive the crappy ones, off've my old one!
If that tensioner pulley stays that close to the to the waterpump pulley on the Corvette engine......the tensioner mechanism can be unbolted/rotated upwards/a new hole drilled to relocated the end of the torque spring/install a shorter belt.
So the desirable set up is from a camaro or caprice? And one must use an electric fan with the conversion? Plus use the Camaro/Caprice water pump and alternator?
I passed on a really nice (cheap) complete set up from a truck cause it had the longer front water pump 'cause I wasn't sure there would be room for the power steering pulley as it seems pretty tight already.
If that tensioner pulley stays that close to the to the waterpump pulley on the Corvette engine......the tensioner mechanism can be unbolted/rotated upwards/a new hole drilled to relocated the end of the torque spring/install a shorter belt.
Thanks DG! But,I don't think I'll have to relocate it, because the Corvette engine, is the same 1st Gen SBC block as the '87 Caprice. I don't think there were any changes to that, until the LT1 came out in 1992 and used the Optispark, combined distributor-water pump, deal.
If I'm wrong on that, please correct me!
And all, I appreciate the advice and thoughts! My buds at the shop are on the way, down the freeway to pick up my engine. I just ordered an '87 Corvette from Autozone and ordered a Flex-A-Lite 17" reverse rotation race fan. Will order spacers as necessary.
So the desirable set up is from a camaro or caprice? And one must use an electric fan with the conversion? Plus use the Camaro/Caprice water pump and alternator?
I passed on a really nice (cheap) complete set up from a truck cause it had the longer front water pump 'cause I wasn't sure there would be room for the power steering pulley as it seems pretty tight already.
mardyn
Glad you posted that, because the 1st Gen SBC Serpentine Belt setup for the trucks is a very different beast. It looks similar, but the driver's side bracket casting is actually a good deal taller, than a passenger car's would be and I don't think it will fit.
As far as what you're going to run, the consensus with the Camaro or Firebird setup, you're going to be running an electric fan. The Caprice didn't come with that, but ran a mechanical fan instead. I'm going with a Corvette water pump, off've the C4 Corvettes, that was used on the last of the 1st Gen SBC blocks, till the LT1 in 1992 and is the short pump, reverse rotation as demanded, by the way the belt is routed.
09-03-2014, 04:53 PM
Project Serpentine Belt Conversion - SBC
