I've seen several threads about this on the forum...

My question is... as far as the shifter lining up correctly for the original style C3 manual shifter console, is it better to use a Gen 3 Camaro/Firebird style bellhousing with the 17 degree tilt towards the driver side or a normal bellhousing which mounts the transmission flat?

I know if I use the flat mounting I will have to buy an expensive offset shifter (to the left and forward) or modify/fabricate something for a stock shifter. I just don't know if the amount the Camaro mounting is offset to the left by the tilt makes it easier to line up with the console or not.

 

I did 2 of them with the non T5 bell.

No need for an expensive offset shifter. A stock Ford T5 shifter has a straight shaft that can be made to function with a lil work.

Here's mine, since this pic I put the stock Corvette shifter on it so it looks more correct.

Edit: As good as this works, I originally had a Hurst T5 shifter. Unfortunately it came up to high into the console and couldn't use it. Have thought about opening the gate and getting a bigger boot but haven't yet, I like the stock look.

 

Can you elaborate on the 'lil work'? It looks like you cut off the stock shifter shaft where the handle normally comes out and then welded on a plate to offset it to the left and then welded the rest of the shaft that attaches to the handle onto the top of the plate?

Seems straightforward enough... I have a welder but I am not sure it is up to welding that thick of material, its a 110V 70 amp wire welder.

 

You got it...... that's exactly what was done in that pic for my 77.

It was different on the first one for the 68. Besides going to the left it needed to be lowered a little bit. Both were the Ford shifters bolted on to Camaro transmission's.

 

I am planning on using a Ford pattern T5 since they are far cheaper and more common than V8 Gen-3 Camaro/Firebird T5s. By just about everything I've read they are slightly stronger too, due to the shape of the case and some minor internal part differences. I've been talking with a guy that makes transmission adapter plates to get one that is correct for this application for use with a Camaro bellhousing since those have the hydraulic clutch mounting bracket which is nice. This adapter plate will compensate for the 1/2" longer input shaft, different bearing retainer size on the Ford transmission as well as making the transmission mount flat instead of at 17 degrees towards the drivers side. He's already got one ready to go for S10 T5s using the Camaro bellhousing, that will differ from the one for Ford T5s only in the bearing retainer size. He could probably easily make one that worked with a common Chevy Muncie/T10 pattern bellhousing to mount a Ford style T5. I'd go the latter route if the Camaro bellhousings didn't have the hydraulic clutch mount. Its easier to pay a little extra for the Camaro bellhousing than to try to fabricate another part for the hydraulic clutch bracket and I don't know of a flat mount Chevy bellhousing that is readily available that has the bracket on it. I've heard some of the truck ones do, but I'm not finding them.

 

With the tilted installation you can't use a mechanical clutch linkage.

 

I was planning to do a hydraulic clutch anyway... one of the main reasons for using the 3Gen F-body bellhousing is that it includes the bracket for the slave cylinder. However, I am planning to use an adapter plate that un-tilts the transmission because it appears that an offset shifter with the flat mounted transmission is the preferable way to go with a Ford T5 in a C3.

 

Perhaps a nice modern soft clutch with the stock mechanical linkage would give a smooth, more fluid like feel than going with the hydraulics.

Just seems more simple and nothing to leak.

Either way, its a nice little trans and a fun project. Good luck with it.

 

Update...

Change of plans... I found a Camaro WC T5 for cheap... $260 including a flat mount truck SBC bellhousing with hydraulic clutch bracket. It included the Camaro shifter which I should be able to cut off and modify for offset and the clutch fork. So now all I need to find is the right flywheel, a clutch and disc, throwout bearing, the fork gasket, slave cylinder and the clutch pedal assembly and hoses and a yoke for the transmission... And the speedo cable adapter and the reverse light adapter... and a few other little things...

 

I'm trying to round up the other parts I need... I'm assuming I need a 153 tooth flywheel and an 11" clutch. I know the clutch disc needs to be 28 spline... I think I may need to get the casting number from the bellhousing I have in order to figure out what fork I need (if the one I have isn't the right one) and if I might need a different length ball stud.

In an original automatic car, what is the best clutch pedal assembly to use? Should I buy a separate one, or one with a brake pedal on it too? Will one designed for a Camaro fit a C3 or does it have to be C3 specific? Where is a good place to find a clutch pedal assembly? Keeping in mind I plan to use a hydraulic setup instead of a mechanical linkage.

 

Clutch size depends of you starter setup. EDIT : and of your bellhousing clearance of course.
I had a 153 tooth flexplate, so I bought a 153 tooth (10.5) flywheel. IIRC you can shim your starter to accept 168 tooth flywheel.
EDIT2: I'm assuming here that clutch and flywheel must match, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The only pedal setup I know is the stock one, where the brake and clutch pedals come together. In the time I contacted member Kustom8 about the seperate pedals he was making(allegedly you could put insert them in a automatic pedal box), but he responded months after I bought a complete set. I was 4 years ago and I can't even find the original thread. At the time he replied he still had some.
You using mechanical or hydraulic shouldn't change anything.
Pedal can be found on the sale section, but they are amongst the most sought after part, comes pricey.
Can't remember where I got mine, I guess it was Ebay.

Welcome to the GM T5 club, you can find pics of the rebuild/install of mine in my resto thread, check the first post, it has a master index.
You made a hell of a deal by the way.

 

I don't know what my current flexplate has... It is whatever came stock in 1980 with a TH350. I haven't had it apart to measure it. I think you are correct on the clutch having to match... I'm wondering about the bellhousing matching since the bellhousing I would like to use came from a truck I think due to it having the hydraulic clutch bracket cast in. Most of the car ones don't have that except the 3Gen Camaro/Firebird ones which tilt the transmission to the left by 18 degrees.[quote]

Aftermarket is perfectly fine with me. My car will never make the NCRS folks smile anyway, it's too rough here and there. I've been looking on eBay, I just need to know what to look for exactly before I pull the trigger on it.

Yeah, I figured I'd better jump on it while the git'n was good.

 

IMHO first get the right bellhousing for your needs, then see what you can fit in it, the bigger the better.
I my case I made a deal on a lakewood scattershield. I probably could have gone the 11' way, but I was too scared so I stuck to the size I had. *chicken*

 

The bellhousing I have should be perfect since it is SBC with the straight up muncie style mounting and the bracket for the hydraulic slave cylinder. I believe it came from a Chevy or GMC truck of some sort since the car bellhousings other than the tilted 3Gen Camaro ones usually don't have the bracket. I just need to know what flywheel will fit it, line up with the starter on my L48 (if I have to buy one of those mini-starters or something not the end of the world probably) and the flywheel if I understand right will dictate which clutch I need... 11" clutch for 168 tooth flywheel and 10.5" clutch for 153 tooth. I guess I need to look up the casting number of the bellhousing to see what info I can gather on it.

 

The bellhousing I have is a 3899621 which from what I find online needs a 168 tooth flywheel and an 11" clutch. So that settles that... Looks like I will need a new starter since from what I gather my TH350 uses a 153 tooth flexplate. I will probably just buy one of the lightweight mini-starters that fit either 168 or 153 tooth applications... that would save a little weight and give more clearance for future expansion like headers...

 

Hmmm... from what I am finding online the 3899621 bellhousing is pretty rare... and the one I have with the hydraulic clutch bracket even more so... I really lucked out. What these bellhousings are selling for online is a pretty good chunk of what I paid for the T5 and the bellhousing.

 

O.K... next question... I bought a C3 31-1/4" driveshaft off eBay... How much do I need this shortened to fit between my Camaro T5 and my Dana 44?

I dunno if 31-1/4" is the TH350 length driveshaft or if it is for a Muncie or T-10 or even a TH400 (all used during the C3 years).

From what I gather the T5 is approximately 1.9" longer than a TH350...

 

When you mock it all up at the end you can get a good idea of how much to trim the driveshaft. I marked mine and took it to a shop to trim it. $70 I think.

 

That sounds pretty reasonable. I was kinda hoping to have everything all rounded up and ready to go before the final install though... so I'd like to figure out how much needs to be cut out and have it shortened and balanced before the car as it is now comes apart. That was one of the primary reasons I bought another driveshaft. Well, that and this way I can put the original driveshaft and tranny in my shed and revert the car back to original later if I wanted to.

 

I had to get 3" removed from my auto driveshaft.