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Where's the appreciation?

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Old May 15, 2015 | 03:54 PM
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Default Where's the appreciation?

According to Hagerty's valuation guide it appears Corvette values have been flat for the last 10 years, the condition 1 and some condition 2 classes have actually dropped. A random comparison of a 69 Mustang Mach1 however showed about 27% appreciation in the last 2 years. Assuming Hagerty's prices are realistic, they have no cars to sell, where is the appreciation we often hear about?
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Old May 15, 2015 | 04:24 PM
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I am not really sure what happened but back in 09 when I bought my 69 the price was several K lower than it would have been a few years before and it really has only trickled back up and not up much.

I saw a time when guys would score barn finds pay lots to restore them ( stock ) and sell for tall profits, not anymore, look what happens when "projects" another name for "barn finds" get posted on here, they get bashed and trashed and called junk and or worthless.
( rare cars are exempt ) some of that same "trash" was the starting points for restoration jobs that sold for profit many years ago.

A person can go find their dream c3 restored far cheaper than doing it themselves ( in most cases ) today and in general the prices are down not up.

Resto mods the stomach cramp of the NCRS have jumped up in popularity over factory stock but are mostly 74-79-80-82 cars the 68-72's seem to be the best in appreciation of all c3's, and still to scarce to be lower in price like the later plastic bumper cars.
In general in the 74-82's unless rare, low miles, uber clean, pristine orginal the resto mods are fetching as much or more than factory stock.

Most people now agree c3 are not really any kind of monetary investment as far as going up fast...buy it for a car to enjoy that is the real investment.

Just what I have seen...
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Old May 15, 2015 | 04:24 PM
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There is no appreciation for the corvette unless it's a matching number rare car in better than original condition. Unless it is a fastback mustang, Gen 1 Camaro, chevelle, cuda or challenger, its not worth anything. I have looked at a dozen plus 70 chevelles over the last few months. 1970, SS clone, non-matching, OK paint, vinyl top with bubbles under it, swirl marks all in the paint, non-posi track (good daily driver) and the guy wont budge from 25K (and he will get it). The price only goes up from there is you are talking true SS even with NOM (and they last less than 24 hours on craigslist even at top dollar). Hell, a junked out chevelle body minus drive train needing all interior and lots of body work will bring 8K plus on ebay. Fastback mustang is the same way. Scrap metal Gen 1 Camaro needing everything brings 2-3k. C3 Corvette that's a nice daily drive needing a little work... Baaaahhh worth $2000-$2500. But we do this to ourselves. The matching number corvette in show quality might bring what the aforementioned SS clone daily driver entry level chevelle will go for. Flame on.....
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Old May 15, 2015 | 04:26 PM
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Bats, we were on our soap boxes at the same time
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Old May 15, 2015 | 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rajin cajin
Bats, we were on our soap boxes at the same time

Not so much a soap box...I'm just bored and the heat is too muggy for me to get outside...
I do more work outside at night.

You know on other cars the wild thing is a Camaro or firebird of the same year as a c3 in general is going for more these days even ones in poor condition compared to the same year c3...trends and tastes change...also more people are modding c3's now than in the last 20-30 years it might get as crazy as the 70's....
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Old May 16, 2015 | 05:17 AM
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With 542,861 C3 Corvettes produced they won't appreciate much, if any (other than L88/89, ZR's and the like).

By comparison Ferrari 308 total production numbers are 12,149. Prices on those went up about 50% within the last 1½ year.

/Karsten
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Old May 16, 2015 | 06:30 AM
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There were a lot more than half a million Mustangs produced in a single model year.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BBCorv70
...Assuming Hagerty's prices are realistic...where is the appreciation we often hear about?...
I own two. Both are now worth more than I paid for them. Would you say your car is worth more than you paid for it?

At the time I purchased each of mine, potential appreciation was not a concern for me.

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Old May 16, 2015 | 11:29 AM
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appreciation starts at home I love our car, even more so when I tell people it's a 79 LOL I love the "OH" look in their eyes. Hey some even vocalize it.

Most of my childhood friends owned mopars, some still do. I'm considered the sell out now lol. Times change and values do too. when I owned my Charger, you could barely give them away. Now try to buy one. I have a customer that owns an Austin Healy ( spelling?) when he bought it they were worth less than scrap. Now it's a very valuable car.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy Mike
I own two. Both are now worth more than I paid for them. Would you say your car is worth more than you paid for it?

At the time I purchased each of mine, potential appreciation was not a concern for me.

If the data presented by Hagerty is accurate which I'd expect it to be close being in the insurance business, their charts suggest prices have plateaued for the most part for the last 10 years. Some of the top classes have actually dropped a bit. The bigger run up in prices seems to have happened prior to 2005? Other classic cars from the 60's and 70's seem to be doing much better. I chose the 69 Mach1 Mustang for comparison because I had one up until the early 90's. To me the Corvette had a much larger cool factor, body was not prone to rust, felt less ordinary. Strangely, the Mustang would have been the better investment even given it's NOM status. I swapped the original engine out early on.

If you bought yours within the last 10 years, gained significant value, it would seem you bought it well.

Yeah I think mine is worth more than I paid for it but that was 30 years ago. I doubt appreciation will ever cover what I put into it over the years. On the other hand I've lost (or consumed) more money over that time period on my everyday driver cars. I usually didn't keep my toy cars for more than a few years before moving on to another. Investment wasn't even a remote consideration back then. If it were I would have kept my 67 Corvette convertible, big block, 4 speed. It would have been worth restoration even considering it was a NOM, had an LS6 installed.

My point is I don't see much appreciation when I look at statistical data offered by Hagerty, not in the last 10 years. Some people may have done well if they bought at below average prices, then sold above? I suppose an owner could gain value through restoration, raise the car to the next class but cost may be greater than any increase gained.

Will the market likely remain flat appreciation wise? Drop? What would trigger a sudden increase now or in the near future? I'd guess we probably won't see a dramatic change, barring another economic collapse. If a buyer were to buy a C3 Corvette today, would they likely see the appreciation gained by those who bought back in the 80's or 90's? It seems there isn't much room for appreciation to cover costs if we spend more $$ to improve/restore the car. I'll continue to invest in mine for the satisfaction of maintaining a 45 year old cool car, enjoy the weekend drives. Not expecting to recoup my investment.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BBCorv70
If the data presented by Hagerty is accurate which I'd expect it to be close being in the insurance business, their charts suggest prices have plateaued for the most part for the last 10 years. Some of the top classes have actually dropped a bit. The bigger run up in prices seems to have happened prior to 2005? Other classic cars from the 60's and 70's seem to be doing much better. I chose the 69 Mach1 Mustang for comparison because I had one up until the early 90's. To me the Corvette had a much larger cool factor, body was not prone to rust, felt less ordinary. Strangely, the Mustang would have been the better investment even given it's NOM status. I swapped the original engine out early on.

If you bought yours within the last 10 years, gained significant value, it would seem you bought it well.

Yeah I think mine is worth more than I paid for it but that was 30 years ago. I doubt appreciation will ever cover what I put into it over the years. On the other hand I've lost (or consumed) more money over that time period on my everyday driver cars. I usually didn't keep my toy cars for more than a few years before moving on to another. Investment wasn't even a remote consideration back then. If it were I would have kept my 67 Corvette convertible, big block, 4 speed. It would have been worth restoration even considering it was a NOM, had an LS6 installed.

My point is I don't see much appreciation when I look at statistical data offered by Hagerty, not in the last 10 years. Some people may have done well if they bought at below average prices, then sold above? I suppose an owner could gain value through restoration, raise the car to the next class but cost may be greater than any increase gained.

Will the market likely remain flat appreciation wise? Drop? What would trigger a sudden increase now or in the near future? I'd guess we probably won't see a dramatic change, barring another economic collapse. If a buyer were to buy a C3 Corvette today, would they likely see the appreciation gained by those who bought back in the 80's or 90's? It seems there isn't much room for appreciation to cover costs if we spend more $$ to improve/restore the car. I'll continue to invest in mine for the satisfaction of maintaining a 45 year old cool car, enjoy the weekend drives. Not expecting to recoup my investment.
There's still a bit of mystique and an awe factor with most non-car people (most of the population). I get more 'wow's and 'dude-awesome car!' as well as thumbs-ups than I ever did driving my '69 GTO (factory original low mieage, spectacular condition). That car rarely got noticed except by known car guys.

A Corvette is still a 'thing', even if they aren't valued where they used to be, even more so than any Mustang or Camaro.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy Mike
I own two. Both are now worth more than I paid for them. Would you say your car is worth more than you paid for it?
At the time I purchased each of mine, potential appreciation was not a concern for me.
^^^^^^^^^
Okay that was food for my thinking...
Perhaps it's a question of how much appreciation do you want or need, if you are wanting to flip your c3 10-20 years from now and retire on the sale then it better be a L-88 or some other rare car,
On the other hand unless the owner really invested silly high amounts in a build then the c3 will likely always be worth more than invested, mine is by far...

But i have never bought any car with any care what it will be worth down the road...not the reason I own cars.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 03:36 PM
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my car appreciates every day. At least I appreciate it every day
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Old May 16, 2015 | 04:20 PM
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I think C3 prices on the whole right now and for the past few years have been a bargain. I don't feel there is any great upside potential due to production amts. this excludes race and rare cars. Many people these days don't know one year c3 from another. I think originality is needed these days to maintain value long term.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 05:13 PM
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The muscle car buying populace has grown older and fatter and in addition they now have kids or grand kids they want to take for rides. These whale-size-kid-toting consumers need four seat sloth mobiles in which to relive their youth.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BBCorv70
Other classic cars from the 60's and 70's seem to be doing much better. I chose the 69 Mach1 Mustang for comparison because I had one up until the early 90's. To me the Corvette had a much larger cool factor, body was not prone to rust, felt less ordinary. Strangely, the Mustang would have been the better investment even given it's NOM status. ....
I doubt appreciation will ever cover what I put into it over the years.
Originally Posted by Serial Steve
A Corvette is still a 'thing', even if they aren't valued where they used to be, even more so than any Mustang or Camaro.
Originally Posted by The13Bats
i have never bought any car with any care what it will be worth down the road...not the reason I own cars.
Oddly enough... if I were to consider selling ONE of these for a profit, (and that`s a BIG "if")... I think I`d get the most for the goat!

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Old May 16, 2015 | 05:37 PM
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Default C3s are a bargain, (Shh, don't Spoil it!)

Originally Posted by FINWOLF
my car appreciates every day. At least I appreciate it every day
I am in this for the fun of driving and wrenching. My buddy calls it a hobby car. Very true. From and investment point of view, these cars are like a wood boat, a hole in the water which you pour money into. I am surprised the value does not hold up like the other classics. I always thought of Corvettes as special. As a rule I avoid the auction shows. They are out of my league. I will however, stop and check out every C3 I see for sale aside the road.
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Old May 16, 2015 | 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by adamdinat
I am in this for the fun of driving and wrenching. My buddy calls it a hobby car. Very true. From and investment point of view, these cars are like a wood boat, a hole in the water which you pour money into.
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Old May 17, 2015 | 11:09 AM
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The competition has increased. Modern 707 horsepower toys have lured people out of the old car market.
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Old May 17, 2015 | 12:06 PM
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The big muscle car traders are like the days of the day traders.
If you have the capital when everyone else is hurting then
you buy your *** off. When the market returns you dump em at the
auction houses. You made you $$$$$ when you bought the car.
If you didn't buy the car right then you can look in the mirror
all day and try and convince yourself you did good. But.....NOT.
I bought a 68 BB right, if I don't overdo it, I'll never loose $
on this car. Buy,drive enjoy end of story.
Most overly restored cars don't fetch the owners investment.
Guy gets a change of interest and decides to dump his low
compression no frills say 72 coupe.
He's dissappointed he can't get rid of it this week and get that
BB Camaro cause he doesn't have it priced right?
Oh well it sits on CL for the summer and into the fall.
Sound familar?
Unless as stated it's a rare Ferrari etc......
Buy the car to enjoy, but remember you made your $ at the time you
bought it not @ the time you sell it.
Sorry but that's the reality in todays market as I'm seeing it.
If you bought to high you may sit on it for a very long time.
Marshal
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